Why not Abolish tax relief on private pensions and used the money saved to provide a good state pension for all?

Pension Investment is a large proportion of the UK and world economy, there are big questions about how pensions are invested, by who and in what companies and sectors. If a pension blackhole is to be addressed then in what way can these questions also be considered? Organisations such as http://www.fairpensions.org.uk/ research this area currently

Hello Richard,

I see managed funds always being the backbone of retirement income.

We are merely offering a way in which - when all of their expendable income has been spent and/or invested - individual's can try and create even more future income using their spare time and and underused assets that they may have lying around.

Hi Senake. Even if managed funds are the backbone of retirement income, I think the question of how they are managed and the choices/engagement available to Pension Holders is very important.

If your enterprise can help those on lower incomes or anyone that wants to generate more income, it sounds like an interesting idea and not just for people who have retired.

Our solution is multi-faceted, enabling individuals to start ventures and help create their own jobs, so that is already in hand. On this occasion, we decided to focus on one sector that could put it to good use and that was individuals approaching retirement age or wanting to supplement their pension. Because many of them will acquired a lot of useful knowledge in industry, they would could potentially add a huge amount of value to new businesses starting up.

More choice is generally code for cutbacks. Ie Hammersmith where wardens have been withdrawn from older peoples flats on the grounds of 'personalised service and more choice'

I believe I am correct in saying that in Norway pensions are funded on the earniings of North Sea Oil which is used for the whole country unlike the uK

June, I'm sorry to hear that. Lots of things are down to costs these days and I can only see things getting works with the looming public spending cuts. It's not ideal, but maybe someone in the class could get together a local group together using meetup (this web site). There is another web site that allows public buildings - schools, church halls and so on to be rented very cheaply - I can't recall it's name, but will email you if I remember.

Understandable. I will see if I can organise some (basic) video coverage or post some notes afterwards... Francis organises the venues to be as central as possible and the time to allow people to attend after work.

I think cutbacks are a false economy ie its been proven that pensioners who attend adult education classes need the NHS less than pensonrs who don't so cutting back on adult eduction will mean more pensioners using the NHS thus costing more money in the long run. I think there should cross departmental funding with, for example, the NHS contributing to the cost of adult educaton.

John : The participation of pensioners in these classes may be a consequence of their good health rather than cause of it. Healthier and more active pensioners may choose to attend evening classes out of a desire for activity. Being healthier and more active, they are less likely to need the care of the NHS. Correlation is not the same as causation.

Brian, you said 'being more active they are less likly to need the NHS' so you seem to me supporting the point I am making. Acutallly its not my point it something even the gov say
It kind of obvouse that people who are able to attend classes are less likly to be depressed than pensoners who end up shut at home. And depression is a cause of physical poor health.

My apologies John, I appear not to have been clear enough for you. I was not supporting your point at all.

IMHO your original post said that cutting adult education for pensioners would cost more in NHS spending. This suggests that adult education classes are a primary determining factor in the health of the pensioners that attend them.

I suggest that pensioners choosing to attend adult education do so because they are healthier to begin with. They need less NHS care for the same reason.

BrianM, I don't agree. Keeping active can help keep someone healthy. Research shows that people who exercise on a regular basis are less likly for, for example suffer heart attacks and depresson that those who don't. Pensonser who stop being active because of the cost of adult education won't be as healthy as if they had continued to be active and will thus cost longer in the long term.

I agree that regular exercise can help improve and maintain a persons health and reduce their risk of heart problems. This is true for people of all ages and not just pensioners. I am not sure that adult education qualifies as exercise. The works of Shakespeare may stir by blood but they don't give my cardio-vascular system a thorough workout. I disagree with your initial statement that cuts to adult education will result in increased NHS spending. There may be better uses for this money.

Evening classes provide social interaction, mental stimulation, purpose to life, boost self-esteem, provide a challenge, teach a new + potentially useful skill or knowledge base + will provide some moderate exercise for older people just getting there. All of these factors tend to improve the health of anyone attending evening classes, including the elderly. The decrease in evening classes offered has had a detrimental impact on our collective cultural, social + intellectual life + our health

Solutions to pensions + increased longevity - state pension paid at 65, with workers to choose to work as long as they like beyond that while competent to do their jobs. Most people want this choice, so pension costs will FALL + will not need the young to fund them. Plus, pensioners receive credits, housing benefit, free bus travel, reduced rail prices, leisure subsidies etc. P/t work is an option. It's a simple matter to fund old age with flexible arrangements. + don't expect a luxury lifestyle

Hello Alan. WRT evening classes; these do provide all of the benefits you mentioned but they are not the only source for these things. I am not aware of any evidence that the decrease in evening classes has had any measurable effect on our mental, social or physical well-being. Can you corroborate this? And WRT pensions; the freedom to work past 65 is very important to me. I dread being forced to retire as I know that I cannot save enough in my remaining 25 years to fund my retirement.

Brian, you accept that evening classes are beneficial to health etc., then ask for evidence that they are - a contradiction. And of course they are not the only source of health benefits. Neither is stopping smoking, but it's a good idea! Please quote scientific studies that support YOUR position! And what have you got against evening classes anyway? As you seem to like my flexible retirement idea, those who agree, let's start pressing the politicians to implement it under ageism legislation.

On the substantive point - pensions and 'compulsory' retirement age - many people work until much later in life - actors, musicians, entrepreneurs, judges, journalists + media commentators/presenters, POLITICIANS. Why should the rich + famous be able to work as long as they like but everyone else have to be arbitrarily discarded? Those who make the laws - politicians - once again are exempt from them. Let's challenge this ageism + classism so we can choose to work for as long as we can + want to

Alan, I fail to see the contradiction you refer to. I accepted that evening classes can provide the benefits that you claimed for them but then said that they are not the only source for these benefits. You claimed that "The decrease in evening classes offered has had a detrimental impact on our collective cultural, social + intellectual life + our health". Since you assert this as a fact I would like evidence for this. Which of my assertions would you like evidence for?

Sorry to all. I am aware that this conversation is starting to get a little heated and is in danger of taking over this column. John and Alan; before we get ouselves a bad name here; shall we continue this on the message board?

BrianM, There are connections between mental health and physical heath ie someone who is depressed is more likely to suffer physical health. Someoone who attends, for example, adult education classes, is less likly to suffer from depression and thus less likly to suffer poor physical heath and thus saves th NHS money.

John, accepting for the sake of argument that cancelling funding for adult education classes will lead to some people whose classes have been cut becoming clinically depressed. This alone does not establish that the cuts were a false economy. If 1000 classes serving 30 people each and costing £50 per person are cancelled; this will save 1000 x 30 x £50 = £1,500,000. If 1% of the 30,000 ex-students consequently need treatment costing £1000 each, that cost will be 30,000 x 0.01 x £1000 = £300,000.

If you would like to continue this conversation, please start a thread on the message board. Having criticised one other person for spamming, I don't want to be seen to be doing the same thing.