RE: RE: [atheists-93] MORALITY? of atheists

From: Kathryn
Sent on: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:09 PM

All I want to add is that I hope everyone had a good Jesus Zombie Day!

 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of GeminiMoon
Sent: Sunday, April 12,[masked]:44 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: RE: [atheists-93] MORALITY? of atheists

 

Let’s keep in mind that Adolf Hitler was a devout Christian, but Josef Stalin was an atheist.  Might be no connection at all.

 


From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of UU princess
Sent: Sunday, April 12,[masked]:51 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: RE: RE: [atheists-93] MORALITY? of atheists

 

yeh, i may have made that statement on Rand out of hand. I've read some of Rand's novels and a few other writings, and never found an exemplary--or particularly rational-- moral code coming through.

 

I asked my dad (a genetic biologist) for his take on the subject, and i agree with it:

 

My own take on this issue is that there probably is no fundamental connection between religion and morality. Many people, unconsciously feeling less-than-moral tendencies in themselves, rely on the social support that religion and religious doctrine gives them to keep them on the straight and narrow, and therefore come to believe that without religion there can be no foundation for morality. This is probably a mistake, given the evidence of the many agnostics and atheists (e.g., Bertrand Russell) who would be considered highly moral. Morality (along with immorality) is probably built in to the fundamental nature of humankind, regardless of religious belief.



--- On Sun, 4/12/09, Dan Barber <[address removed]> wrote:


From: Dan Barber <[address removed]>
Subject: RE: RE: [atheists-93] MORALITY? of atheists
To: [address removed]
Date: Sunday, April 12, 2009, 7:26 AM

UU wrote: "I doubt I'd turn to Rand for morals and ethics, but I'll take a look a the piece you mention."

Please elaborate on this. Rand's moral system is more often than not stiffeled without any explanation, example or standard. It's emotionally based. A matter of taste it seems. Morality to Rand and me is equal to the standard of what makes an act rational.unchangeable as long as humans are what we are and the goal is our life. You must change that first in order to change what is rational and moral.
Dan


From: UU princess <[address removed]>
Sent: Saturday, April 11,[masked]:58 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: RE: [atheists-93] MORALITY? of atheists

Hmmm. I believe Atheists do strive to think more rationally, but as humans we most likely have emotional responses underlying our decisions as much as anyone else.

 

I doubt I'd turn to Rand for morals and ethics, but I'll take a look a the piece you mention.

 


--- On Sat, 4/11/09, bobbler <[address removed]> wrote:


From: bobbler <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: RE: [atheists-93] MORALITY? of atheists
To: [address removed]
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 3:09 PM

The response closest to mine:

 

< Jon, Re: ethics--Atheists use logic and reasoning to make ethical decisions rationally.  

> (A religious person uses emotion to make ethical decisions based on personal interpretation of a diety's fiat.)  

> We do "make it up," but not in the same way a religious person makes it up.  You might begin with Ayn Rand's Philosophy: Who Needs It? for some reading.  

> I agree we ought to meet and give our money to a business rationally run.

 

If it were not for religious groups presuming they are the very definition of morality, we would not even be having this discussion..  Ironically, these same Xians who brought to the would the holy wars, the pogroms, the Spanish Inquisition, and hitler (caused more suffering and death than anything else in human history), now claim the moral high ground..  [DISCLAIMER]: Many/most xians do good in spite of what the bible teaches, but as with the muslim world, the nut jobs seem to rise in power, and do the dirty deeds, and the good xians do not do anything about it..  Here in America the latest incarnation of what xians call morality is blowing up gay bars, the Oklahoma govt. building, and shooting abortion doctors..  Also ironically, all the killing above (spanning thousands of years to present), is in direct defiance of their 10 commandments; "thou shalt not kill."  Truly nuts are in charge here..   Xian morality changes with the wind (or the religious nut proclaiming a direct pipeline to god; who claims to know how to decode the morality they believe to be in their bible).   Today it seems xian morality is stuck not on "killing" heretics by the thousands, but on gay marriage, taking over the American govt to claim this land for Jesus, and keeping women the property of men (seems everything but stealing and killing).. In summary I much prefer atheist morality, where we can make rational decisions..  The humanists have something like a moral code, google the humanist manifesto (make sure you find the real humanist one, and not xian distortions).. 

 

bobbler



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