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The Atlanta Atheists Meetup Group Message Board › Conservative Atheists?

Conservative Atheists?

A former member
Post #: 35
You cannot separate men from their biology. No testosterone, no reproduction, no human race. Up until the last 20 or 30 years, no choice.

I would like to see the studies you say you could site. Do they offer any solutions or are they just saying the leopard has spots?
Bev S.
user 39027062
Marietta, GA
Post #: 15
Re: "Do they offer any solutions..."

Why look to someone else for solutions? The solution is inside YOU - it's your decision. Everyday. Refuse to participate in violence, destruction, aggression and BE the solution to create a more intellectual society. Ignore precedent and startle civilization with your progress!

As for those studies I mentioned - I've read them online, received them in email etc for the past 10 years. As I searched for them on my own, you too can search for them on Google as I have not saved them over the years. Certainly wish I did but I have not expected anyone to want to read them...but you've convinced me to begin a file. But if you were interested in looking for them...I'm sure they're just a "click" away.
A former member
Post #: 19
Doctors need to do a better job of reporting mentally unstable individuals.

You are asking us to practice bad medicine and violate HIPAA, ( unless I am in N.Y.) for which I can be fined 35 grand for each infraction. Should I report all my severe anxiety disorders which has no association with increased violence? I already 10-13 those who are unstable. Unstable, does not mean they are going to commit homocide or suicide. They could just be floridly manic or going through withdrawels.

It is also unscientific.

There is overwhelming epidemiological evidence that the vast majority of people with psychiatric disorders do not commit violent acts, it's about 4%, averaging all studies. My brother who is a Bipolar I needs to carry a gun when he works late in Midtown Atlanta since he was almost gang raped one night. He has a break every 7 yrs for mania and has to be hospitalized but he goes right back to his job.

Alcohol and drug abuse account for more violence than mental illness itself. Do I report every one I suspect to be an alcoholic based on a CAGE questionaire?

In the National Institute of Mental Health’s E.C.A. study, for example, people with no mental disorder who abused alcohol or drugs were nearly seven times as likely as those without substance abuse to commit violent acts."

Consider that between 2001 and 2010, there were nearly 120,000 gun-related homicides, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. Few were perpetrated by people with mental illness.

I will quote Dr. Michael Stone, professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia and an expert on mass murderers, “Most of these killers are young men who are not floridly psychotic. They tend to be paranoid loners who hold a grudge and are full of rage.”

Even the best psychiatrists cannot predict violence in the mentally ill. Do I report all my OCD, PTSD, bipolar II and I, so they can't own a hunting rifle and engage in a pasttime that gives them pleasure in life?

Now, prohibiting guns in the mentally will definately curtail suicides, but not violent crimes significantly.

Should my brother not be allowed the right to protect himself when he gets into his car at 3am after a conference call with a client in Beijing using the company server? Afterall, he is institutionalized every 7 yrs for mania?

The vast majority of mass homicides are carried out by outwardly normal people or people with personality disorders that don't quite put them in the mentally ill catagory and are very hard to diagnose and treat.
A former member
Post #: 36
Good points Christy. I was not aware of the correlation to substance abuse. Thanks for the info.
Judith M.
Fayetteville, GA
Post #: 23
FYI, the views expressed here may or may not be my own. I love a good discussion and sometimes pick a side just to try it on..

Please don't do that. I find that quite dishonest and makes our exchange pointless. If you want to quote someone with a different view, okay. But to say it is all just a game to you is a waste of time.
A former member
Post #: 37
Judith, as a former debate team member, you have to be prepaired to argue either in favor or opposed to a particular debate topic. It is not dishonest to be able to argue in favor of something or against it. It is just a position. Now if you want to call arguing against something which you believe in it dishonest, first there is that "belief" word. Since I do not "believe" in one position over the other, why should it make a difference? I see it as being able to see both sides of the debate and you have to openly be able to look at both sides with an open mind to make a decision. I do not yet have an opinion on the subject at hand, so how could looking at both sides be considered dishonest?

I am not trying to be untrustworthy or fraudulent as I try to stick to supporting facts, and I am not attempting to to mislead or cheat anyone, just presenting supporting arguments for a position. How can that be considered dishonest?

As for being pointless, is not the whole point exploring both sides of an issue to come to a rational choice or at leased a reasoned choice? If all everyone did was agree with you, what would be gained?

It feels as though you are resorting to name calling, which I really thought could be avoided here and I find being called dishonest rather insulting.
A former member
Post #: 38
Doctors need to do a better job of reporting mentally unstable individuals.

You are asking us to practice bad medicine and violate HIPAA, ( unless I am in N.Y.) for which I can be fined 35 grand for each infraction. Should I report all my severe anxiety disorders which has no association with increased violence? I already 10-13 those who are unstable. Unstable, does not mean they are going to commit homocide or suicide. They could just be floridly manic or going through withdrawels.


The HIPAA Privacy Rule permits a covered entity to disclose PHI, including psychotherapy notes, when the covered entity has a good faith belief that the disclosure: (1) is necessary to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to the health or safety of the patient or others and (2) is to a person(s) reasonably able to prevent or lessen the threat. This may include, depending on the circumstances, disclosure to law enforcement, family members, the target of the threat, or others who the covered entity has a good faith belief can mitigate the threat. The disclosure also must be consistent with applicable law and standards of ethical conduct. See 45 CFR § 164.512(j)(1)(i). For example, consistent with other law and ethical standards, a mental health provider whose teenage patient has made a credible threat to inflict serious and imminent bodily harm on one or more fellow students may alert law enforcement, a parent or other family member, school administrators or campus police, or others the provider believes may be able to prevent or lessen the chance of harm. In such cases, the covered entity is presumed to have acted in good faith where its belief is based upon the covered entity’s actual knowledge (i.e., based on the covered entity’s own interaction with the patient) or in reliance on a credible representation by a person with apparent knowledge or authority (i.e., based on a credible report from a family member or other person). See 45 CFR § 164.512(j)(4).

For threats or concerns that do not rise to the level of “serious and imminent,” other HIPAA Privacy Rule provisions may apply to permit the disclosure of PHI. For example, covered entities generally may disclose PHI about a minor child to the minor’s personal representative (e.g., a parent or legal guardian), consistent with state or other laws. See 45 CFR § 164.502(b).

But that is a judgement call that would also make me nervous were I in such a position. So I would modify my earlier statement from the term "unstable" to "may be a serious and immanent threat".
Judith M.
Fayetteville, GA
Post #: 24
Sorry. I didn't know this was a debate competition. I thought it was a place to share personal points of view.
As far as belief, we all must believe in something and someone in order to function. If you choose to go to a physician when you are sick, then you believe in modern medicine and have faith that the credentialing process gives you a reasonable expectation of help. If you are a Christian Scientist, you go to a Healer who will pray for you. We all choose what authorities and evidence we accept.
Roswell, GA
Post #: 116
Well said, Judith, yet again. My time is too precious, to me at least, to play this sort of game.
A former member
Post #: 20
Once again, evidence points to the fact that most mentally ill are not violent. If the best psychiatrists cannot predict which mentally ill will be violent, I don't want to be a reporting agency, I want to be a physician.

If I reported every mentally ill to some data base so their gun rights are taken away, here in the South, where people own guns like cars, they can rightfully sue me for breach of HIPAA when they come to me with their bipolar mania or anxiety etc. I already incarcerate them with 10-13 if they are homocidal or suicidal, so that is not the issue. The issue is if their lithium needs to be titrated up, do I report them on the off chance they might go and shoot people in a movie theatre until their lithium levels are above 0.8 ( where it is therapeutic)? We physicians, in court of law, are presumed guilty until proven innocent. In 18 yrs of practice, I have adjusted psychiatric meds on an outpatient basis without anyone harming anyone and 10-13'd those who were an immediate danger to themselves or others. In addition, my southern, gun loving psych patients feel comfortable seeking out my help when they are decompensating without this fear I will report them to an outside agency The very people who own guns and feel they are decompensating with their mental health issues don't need the added paranoia that I will now take away their guns while they are seeking help for their increased panic attacks, irritability, anger issues etc. It's why every psychiatrist in N.Y. though pro-gun regulation hates the new law just enacted in N.Y.which has increased reporting requirements for many of their mental health patients.
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