Doesn't Science disprove Christianity?

Doesn't Science disprove Christianity? A leading NZ physicist says no!

Dr. Jeff Tallon is a distinguished physicist specializing in the field of Superconductivity and nano-technology. In 2009 he was awarded the Companion of the NZ order of merit and in 2010 the inaugural Prime Minister’s Science Prize. He is also a visiting professor at Cambridge University, Oxford University and in Demark, Paris & Switzerland.

Dr Tallon is both an internationally renowned scientist and a Christian.

Come along to hear him put his case for Christianity to a room full of skeptics!

Please remember that Jeff has graciously agreed to speak to us - please ensure that questions and discussions are respectful.

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  • Joe C.

    Science doesn't disprove much about anything except that we are still learning and discovering. If there is a God then he can easily defy what we call natural laws.

    July 10, 2013

    • Alan R

      If an individual person has delusions he/she is called insane and given medication. If a group of people have delusions they are called a church and given tax refunds.

      1 · July 10, 2013

    • Joe C.

      Haha

      July 11, 2013

  • Peter M.

    Tweet from Richard Dawkins

    @RichardDawkins Modern physics is deeply mysterious & hard to understand. Therefore Jesus is my Lord & Saviour & Mohammed rode a winged horse. It follows.

    4 · July 9, 2013

    • Peter M.

      Speak for yourself, Joe

      2 · July 10, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Whoever you are I bet you're not that ignorant Joe.

      July 10, 2013

  • KW

    Christianity is a culture. Shouldn't the title read "Doesn't Science disprove the existence of God?"

    2 · July 6, 2013

    • Peter M.

      I think it's generally accepted it means the claims of Christianity.

      2 · July 6, 2013

    • Richard W.

      Yeah. Christianity makes more specific claims than the mere existence of God.

      1 · July 10, 2013

  • Mark H.

    I realise it's not related to tonight's topic, but I'll be bringing my folder full of correspondence with the Advertising Standards Authority with me tonight. Anyone interested in ASA complaints will be welcome to have a look through it.

    July 8, 2013

    • Mark H.

      Thanks Claire :)
      If you ever want help or advice with submitting a complaint to the ASA I'd be happy to help. It's actually a very easy process but I know it can be reassuring to ask for a second opinion. You can email me at [masked]

      July 10, 2013

    • Joe C.

      What an fulfilling life some people have ;-)

      July 10, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Here is a well researched essay on the fabrication of the bible covering the period in question, very interesting. The author would have been burned at the stake, or dismembered alive back in the dark ages.
    www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_lib.htm

    July 9, 2013

    • Joe C.

      Yeah most reliable ancient history book in all history.

      July 9, 2013

    • KJ M.

      That's not saying much.

      July 9, 2013

  • Ramesh N.

    Dean,
    agreed, but all of Tallon's bio points didn't prove 'externally supernatural design.' He confirmed that biochemistry and genetics is highly organised, but did not disprove in any respect the principle of biological self-organisation through evolution by natural selection. I posted Rayna a link to the debunking of Evangelical predictions in the Book allegedly written by Daniel, the alleged prophet, but as she hasn't distributed it, this is it:

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/chris_sandoval/daniel.html
    Scroll down to the bottom third of this web page for the relevant sections

    1 · July 9, 2013

  • Dean C.

    Sorry only 1000 characters at a time...

    Thank you again to Dr. Tallon for coming out to talk to a difficult audience. That was the most interesting meeting we have had in a while. Perhaps we can have a presentation discussing his arguments. Would the Dr. be adverse to sharing his slides with us as discussions points? There would be no point in mis-representing his arguments -as presented -if we wanted to discuss them further.

    1 · July 9, 2013

  • Dean C.

    The nitric oxide dehydrogenase argument was completely invalid I believe, and suggests that Evolution needs to be taught as part of the Physics curriculum. The enzyme did not just magically appear as a lucky sequence of amino acids which, he suggested, had a 1 in 10 to the 200 chance of occurring. The were 10 to the billion precursor molecules translated from zillions of DNA molecules which gradually mutated over the course of billions of years. The enzyme we have today, which is still changing, is the one that has emerged precisely because it is the one that works and gives the selective advantage. I can't really comment on the validity of the Biblical arguments as I have not read enough. My impression is that all of the New Testament texts were written down and report on events that took place several decades, if not centuries, after the fact. Even well-meaning Church leaders would have an incentive, perhaps subconscious, to make the "facts" fit the desired story.

    3 · July 9, 2013

  • Dean C.

    Thank you to the organizers and Dr. Tallon for presenting the talk. A difficult subject to condense into a hour. "Intelligent design" as a scientific or evidence based rational for theism has already been well debunked by Richard Dawkins and others. The situation of the finely tuned physical constants is remarkable, but so are many other things in our wonderful universe. The anthropic principle is more compelling to me than the "God as architect" belief because, at least with the Standard model and M-theory, there is a path to evidence and testability and future NAD proof. "Faith" has always had the convenient requirement that you have to "just believe" in order reap the alleged benefits.

    July 9, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    bah, really wish I could have made it last night. of course i would expect most if not all skeptics to be well beyond the point of being able to be convinced of a god or anything like that, but i really wish i caught the talk, to me it was mainly about understanding what views are in the field aside from what we expect. Whether we agree or not, there are likely more like him that are out there whether we're aware or not.

    1 · July 9, 2013

  • Clive W.

    Thanks for putting this on guys. Interesting to hear his viewpoint. I did loose it when he claimed that the Christians were the ones who stood up to the Nazis.

    July 9, 2013

    • Clive W.

      I thought the talk started well and the initial argument has merit.
      I do fail to see his link between the creator of such exquisite detail that is the Universe with the dreadful character that is in the Bible.

      1 · July 9, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Try deism.

      July 9, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Jeff,
    A nice try last night, lets stick to the topic and put aside the universe for a moment. Science definately disproves the following because the we cannot repeat the core beliefs of christianity;
    Creating a virgin birth (using 2000 year old methods, no test tubes)
    Raising from the dead (I mean really dead)
    The concept of heaven or hell (such primitive beliefs)

    Christianity has all the hallmarks of hundreds of other religions, some even share the same biblical stories. All just fables and stories to control the population and give them hope in a competive world.

    July 9, 2013

  • Peter M.

    Three-fold cord? 1. The universe, therefore God. 2. The bible, therefore God. There is no 3. Sorry, Jesus gets thrown in with the bible, you don't get a free category there.
    Once again a complete failure to provide a coherent answer to the problem of evil/suffering. In fact Dr.Tallon seemed to completely miss the point of my question and this made his answer all the more insulting.

    July 9, 2013

  • Gail

    Not now able to make meeting but would really appreciate a review of how the meeting goes. Thanks.:)

    July 8, 2013

    • Al the P.

      lrekies on probability arguments for first half of presentation.. second half of presentation does not seem to have calculated the probability that the creator he is searching for is the one in this paper document in he narrow 2000 year time slice of the 13.8 billion year he describes

      1 · July 8, 2013

    • Mike H.

      Nice summary Al. I too struggled with the link from the physics to the theological. I like the idea of "god" as a well balanced equation

      1 · July 9, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Very interesting to hear how someone so intelligent can be so deluded.
    His argument is that the universe is so statistically unlikely to have evolved through chance that we do not fully understand it, therefore it was created by a god. How is this different to the natives in PNG who do not understand why the sun comes up in the morning, therefore they assume it is a god.

    July 9, 2013

  • Joe C.

    Hey thanks for organising. Always a good venue. An acclaimed speaker provided a thorough calculated argument within his profession. Some off topic questions afterwards but good personal conversations. Look forward to hear from other professionals in their field.

    July 9, 2013

  • allanc

    Exactly what these meetings are for; to provide speakers on topics of interest and controversy, then to follow up with questions and discussion.

    July 9, 2013

  • Paulo L.

    Is the person who organize this meet up is stupid or what??

    July 8, 2013

    • Paulo L.

      It is missing the point!

      July 8, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Quit your trolling.

      3 · July 9, 2013

  • Al the P.

    but let me say thanks to the organisers.. a nice boozy monday evening all round... hoping more people can buy a drink next time and support the venue... ;-)

    July 8, 2013

  • Ramesh N.

    Christ! See
    www.infidels.org/library/modern/chris_sandoval/daniel.html

    July 8, 2013

  • Al the P.

    hmm.. could the chair take questions from everyone rather than 4 questions from each of a few people... meeeah.. unfair... good speaker.. though.. nice and controversial.. loved the first half... haha..

    July 8, 2013

  • Paulo L.

    Great let's go to churches then?!

    July 8, 2013

    • Joe C.

      The speaker who has not even spoken a word and yet already sounds far more courageous than a few in the audience. I thought educated people were supposed to have open minds?

      2 · July 8, 2013

    • Joe C.

      Uhum.. Although through Christendom, the western worlds best universities expanded out from religious studies into the sciences, “going to church“ really is rather different to discussing science with a skeptic based science group doesn't it professor Paulo.

      July 8, 2013

  • Sam

    Good points. The link to Professor Tallon's opinion piece from which this observation comes are attached, and are worth reading prior to the meeting: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10867954

    July 3, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      I sure don't see any steel strands there. Lots of thoughts and opinions though, but nothing that would pass scientific peer review...

      July 3, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      Hoo boy, what drivel. The most interesting question is how anyone could be a functional physicist while demonstrating such weak thinking.
      Surely this is some kind of dare from his colleagues to get a rise out of us.

      July 8, 2013

  • Paulo L.

    I really agree with KW ""Doesn't Science disprove the existence of God?"

    July 8, 2013

  • Paulo L.

    I thought I was in this meet up to meet skeptics not to see and hear Christian however they are.
    Please whom may do this program you are addressing to skeptics not to religions people.
    Can you understand that?!

    July 8, 2013

  • Joe C.

    What time might the group finish as i may drop in near the end

    July 8, 2013

  • Ramesh N.

    Tallon wrote in the NZ Herald on Feb[masked] : [ The Bible ] 'is miraculously endorsed by the accuracy of its long range forecasting. This is a strand of steel. The Book of Daniel, for example, in a countdown of[masked] days, reveals to the very day the coming of Jesus to Jerusalem at the beginning of Passion week- though it was written 500 years earlier.'

    Um, how does the Book of Daniel do this countdown, even if we assume as Tallon does that Jesus was the Messiah? Furthermore, no intact Old Testaments survive earlier than 4th to 5th century examples, and only a scanty number of Old Testament books exist in the Dead Sea scrolls cache.

    July 3, 2013

    • Gail

      Tallon uses Einstein's quote about Jesus as a good man as proof of his belief in a supernatural being when it is universally known that Einstein's view of God was very different. http://www.freethough...­

      July 5, 2013

    • Joe C.

      Rather selective texts on Einstein. He has always read to be unimpressed with religiousness but unequivocally has a strong faith. We also read in the New Testament that Christ also bagged religious people more than anyone.

      July 7, 2013

  • Harry

    Damn, have to pull out because of work

    July 6, 2013

  • KJ M.

    Will definitely be there, for once.

    July 5, 2013

  • Zanni Y.

    can't, i work 6pm-10pm

    July 5, 2013

  • Gail W.

    Now not able to make this - sorry!

    July 3, 2013

  • Joe C.

    How on earth do you enjoy breath taking scientific wonders, anthropological discoveries, philosophical exploration outside your narrow confines of what science is all about? Science itself is often built upon many theories & non absolutes.

    June 30, 2013

  • Joe C.

    Closed minded morons, how on earth do you enjoy breath taking scientific wonders, anthropological discoveries, philosophical exploration outside your narrow confines of what science is all about? Science itself is often built upon many theories.

    June 29, 2013

  • Paulo L.

    Is this a Skeptics group? Why bring a Christian at the meeting to express his delusions?

    June 23, 2013

    • micheal w.

      thats why i want to go to get his point of view before i dismiss as wishful thinking

      June 26, 2013

    • micheal w.

      hope he's prepared for the if you try hard enough you can can work anything to get what you want from it just look at homeopathy it doesn't mean it true however stupid magic water

      June 26, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    keen to come along

    June 20, 2013

  • Gail

    http://evidencebasedthought.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/evidence-based-faith
    You may have seen this response to Tallon's letter to Dominion Post.

    June 20, 2013

  • Fred L.

    I guess science can't disprove something that is intentionally put outside of the natural world by its proponents. But then the Bible is full of falsifiable miracle claims and it seems the more we find out about how the universe actually works, the less there is for this proposed God to do. So science makes God irrelevant, even if we can never definitively say such a being doesn't exist. I won't be holding my breath in hope of a rational discussion from Tallon if his Herald articles are anything to go by.

    1 · June 19, 2013

  • Peter

    It's true science hasn't disprove Christianity. But neither has science disprove the existence of fairies, leprechauns, Santa Claus or a tea cup revolving round the sun. The amount of nonsense found in the bible blows my mind, not to mention the tons of immorality it advocates. It's amazingly sad normally intelligent people uses reason, logic and common sense to evaluate everything including other religions,except the religion they are indoctrinated into. :(

    May 30, 2013

    • Alan R

      What!!!.......Santa Claus may not exist? So I've been well behaved all these years for nothing?

      2 · June 2, 2013

    • Alex P.

      A matter of the burden of proof : ) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

      June 6, 2013

  • Isabelle R.

    sooo sorry! oops, out of the country on that date ( misread the date)! Hate to miss it...

    May 31, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    It will be interesting to see how this can be more than subjective opinions. That he's a renowned physicist does mix it up a bit so this should be interesting.

    May 31, 2013

  • James B.

    It seems to me the core claims of Christianity (and other religions) are non-falsifiable, so the point of discussion is tautological. If science has not disproved Christianity then nor has it disproved Islam, Hinduism, etc, in which case the speaker hopes to demonstrate what exactly? I suggest a far more impressive feat would be to argue the inverse; that Christianity has to all reasonable extents proven its core claims in the face of science. That I'd like to hear!

    May 31, 2013

    • Rayna

      Omg hai james!!!!

      May 31, 2013

    • James B.

      Hi Rayna! Hope to see you at the next meeting, I've been away sailing...

      May 31, 2013

  • Craig S.

    Michael - I disagree about the name - I would understand it to mean that it's asking the question as to whether science disproves the claims made by Christianity - e.g. the existence of an eternal soul, etc. It would be the same as "doesn't science disprove psychics" - yes, psychics exist, but their claims don't hold up to scientific scrutiny.

    May 31, 2013

    • A former member
      A former member

      I was being facetious and doubt anyone is seriously confused!

      May 31, 2013

    • Craig S.

      Sorry - hard to tell sometimes!

      May 31, 2013

  • micheal w.

    should be interesting

    May 31, 2013

  • micheal w.

    not a great name for the meetup
    the religion is real from what i can tell
    the all powerful celestial overlord part no sure but going with
    almost certainly not but can't be sure

    May 31, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    'Disprove Christianity'?? Come on people, everyone knows Christianity exists! ;-)

    May 31, 2013

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