Re: [atheists-55] What Does This Mean?

From: Kevin G.
Sent on: Sunday, February 21, 2010 3:18 PM
Well the religious comparison defense was, at a minimum, unneeded, and at maximum, designed to insult.  It didn't work.  I was in the fire dept. for 30 ish years and have had much worse come my way and not work either.  It was, however, an interesting glimpse into a mind with too much time on its hands.

By the way, Clydes won't work either.  I just got back from there and they have no AV hookup and the room is only semi private.
On Feb 21, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Stu C. wrote:

Wow, a defense with a comparison to religion. Very fitting. 

Well, the meetups would generally be in the evening, so invoking the night-time atmosphere that such a place is likely to have isn't irrelevant. And I'm sorry that you enjoy that place and you're welcome to continue to do so but a nightclub that has no illusions of pretending to be anything else is not conducive to the quiet or semi-quiet venue we would need for engaging discussion. Unless we're proposing to meet up on weekend afternoons, in which case weather, hours of operation and distance would still be concerns. 

Maybe your perception that Cancun Cantina offers quality time and space for quiet reflection is also based on a fallible perception, in which case your opinion is in the minority so why not table it unless nothing else is found?

I almost find this defense by way of conjuring religious fallacies offensive and certainly unnecessary. So you like nightclubs or at least the Cantina. Say so. It's not prejudice when we've been there and it's been loud, smokey and crowded. I grew up with many fond memories of such places but I know that meaningful, participatory discussions are difficult in those situations. 

Does it have a separate room? Does it have A/V hookups? Where is it? So far that venue appears to fail those criteria so why take any offense? Its typical clientele and atmosphere are irrelevant so my apologies for bringing that up in the first place. I meant it mostly with respect to decibel levels and the likelihood of having another room. 

Perception v. reality discussions are great but probably not necessary when locating places to meet up. 

And, like you, I'm sure, no offensive intended.

Stuart




On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Norm <[address removed]> wrote:
"This is is from personal experience and, not from some some non-deity belief system."

Generalizing based on one's experience is the bases of most belief systems. Combine that with fallible perception, one shouldn't think that their conclusion is accurate just because it was their perception at the time. Nightclubs that have an outdoor venue often are quiet before the crowds arrive. This is a reality and be proven easily. Being too loud at these venues on occasion can also be proven. But such a generalization can not. Not using the quiet time of spacious nightclubs limits our selection of possible venues. I stongly suspect that a form of prejudice creeps into one's conclusions when it goes against their conservative upbringing, such as "all nightclubs are bad at all times". This is a conservative belief system as inaccurate as Jesus Christ being the son of some god. The world is not flat;  a Christian or Muslim God doesn't exist and not all nightclubs are always too noisy despite what one's belief systems may dictate.

Everyone is inundated with belief systems regardless of a deity belief. If one is going to question a belief in a deity, they should also question other belief systems, such as one's that are based on a generalization of personal experiences. Are we going to deny the conclusion of Global Warming because we had a record snowfall locally?  Of course not, increase moisture in the air is a result of melting glacials. Melted snow is as likely to raise sea level as rain.

Bottom line, I know that you are partially correct, but I also know that your generalization is incorrect. Thus I stated "for the sake of accuracy".  I support the Separation of Church and State, but I don't support belief systems of any form, particularly, since we have enough knowledge of the world around us to base our behavior on knowledge instead of belief systems.

That being said. I offer suggestions as suggestions, but an accurate evaluation of those suggestions is more conducive to making an appropriate selection.

Respond as you will. For the sake of the group, this thread is closed from any further comments from me. I will, however, entertain private email on this matter if one wants to explore further the concept of belief vs reality.

Norm




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