Bay Area Atheists/Agnostics/Humanists/Freethinkers/Skeptics Message Board › All Atheists believe in God

All Atheists believe in God

A former member
Post #: 10
When athiests refer to nature, they are absolutely referring to the supernatural.

Nature is endowed with odd, phenomenal qualities which have not been explained. Thus, nature is supernatural.

Nature is often given as a scapegoat for many questions of "why" and "how" of the universe. It is contradicting to the extreme how atheists can give nature unexplained abilities and then still think that nature is somehow rational, somehow different than supernatural explanations such as God. It's the same exact thing. Whenever you attribute explanations to the unknown you are saying "God did it" whether you are calling it "God," "Nature," or "Frosty the Snowman".

You're really just confusing yourself here. It looks like you need to read up on methodological naturalism, logical fallacies, epistemology and the philosophy of science in general.

You're throwing around vague terms here, so let's clear some of them up. How you define:

God
Religion
Supernatural
Natural
Paranormal

susan f.
user 12425296
San Carlos, CA
Post #: 6
Matthew, not to be disrespectful, but are you one of those “Birther” people they talk about on Fox News? I mean, that would explain a lot, in terms of your logic.

Lets see.

Matthew says:

“Nature is the supernatural.”

And Matthew says:

“If you don't know, how can you expect me to take science's word for it? You expect me to believe that Nature can do all of these extraordinary and unexplained things? For some unknown and unexplained reason?”


By your logic:

Nature = Supernature

Man = Superman

Obama has no birth certificate. (Or at least, I don’t know. How can you expect me to take the government’s word for it?)

So it follows that:

Obama must be from the planet Krypton.


(If that's the case, then what's the beef with the Religious Rightwing nuts? I thought they were anxiously awaiting second coming. It boggles the mind...)
Gavin I.
globetable
San Francisco, CA
Post #: 94
Hi Matthew,
when I read your profile, I assumed you were a Christian troll out for a bit of mischief, but on digging a bit, I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt and think of you more as a hopelessly confused, al queda style mind-bomber. Which is to say, a typical mind-dead, atheist.

Your basic assumption is correct, atheism is for all intents and purposes a religion, and atheists are overwhelmingly believer in God as Non-God. Atheists share this basic belief system, with Buddhist, Zen Buddhists, Hindus, Satanists, and the Cultural-Atheist-Jews(the intellectual leading, red-nosed, clownish, reindeer, if you will), of these harnessed little deers, and in truth anyone who isn't you and your invisible Jesus friend. Believing in the False Jesus is just as bad, as no Jesus at all, in short everyone is an atheist, except you and your bud Jesus, sitting on the back porch of heaven while everyone you ever knew and everyone who ever lived, burns in ever-lasting hell.

So sure, I'm with you bro, Atheists do indeed believe in God, whatever.

Atheists invariably fail on this question, generally known as Hume's leap - "Fair enough, you don't believe in God, what other explanation is there for, Life, the Universe, Everything?" and they will for the most part stare at you dumb-founded, because they truly believe that not believing in the baby Jesus is good enough. Screw them. An appeal to ignorance, is more vile, disgusting, and dishonest on the atheist side, who supposedly doesn't rely on our unseen entity pal for the explanation, than someone who actually uses God as an answer-
Why did God make semen and clouds the same color, and menstrual flow and hell the same color? Because God created man first in his own image and women are taken from the left-over bits of Adam's rib, are closer to hell, and should accept the curse, shut up about Veganism, and bring me a beer. (I mention this because even as I write, I am consuming something claiming to be unfiltered Vegetarian friendly beer, despite the fact, Yeast is an animal. Spunky things, yeast.) God, is of course, the answer.

Who amongst you wouldn't love to watch Huckabee on Fox express this opinon? http://www.youtube.co...­
And if God works as an answer for the believers, why not the non-believers, just the same?

The dismissal you are engaging in, is to an extent valid, it is true I am not Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Morris the Cat, and so on, stating, "how do you explain," is the tactics of the lying scum. I have been credited with inventing Charles Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection enough, to recognize the dismissive argument when I see it. Sure, I didn't invent Charles Darwin or his ideas, but can I employ them when stomping on a know-nothing-dullard-as-answer when the spirit moves me. That I can do.

If you want to discuss, the Time-Space Continuum, I'm happy to say I'm old enough to have seen Star Trek on its original run, never cared much for The Next Generation, thought Deep Space Nine, was the best of the new series, but Babylon 5 really, truly, rocked. And your head is up your butt, because at the end of the day, that stuff, just like baby Jesus, is made up fiction, that just ain't true. The Beatles concert I went to, that was real.

The bottom-line is simply this, every physics explanation that has contradicted the theory of evolution has fallen. All physics theory is subservient to the theory of evolution. Life won, physics zero. The theory of evolution is the cornerstone of all scientific theory and knowledge, and the basis for legal definition of science since 1987. You want to over-turn Newton's apple-cart, feel free to take on someone who knows what they are talking about, otherwise, Educate Yourself, and STFUUYD. And no, FU does not indicate Felix Unger.

Again, start with the basic assumption we live on a planet and that planet is contained within a natural universe. If you want to argue with me over nonsense and whether or not I have canines, assume I'm happy to back that one up too.



Matthew
user 13597253
Dublin, CA
Post #: 6
Wow. I'm having a bit of difficulty following this, given the arcane twists and turns it seems to be taking!
I am an atheist because, like the bumpersticker says, "I Don't Know and You don't Either".

That bumpersticker slogan is called an appeal to ignorace. Part of my argument is that an appeal to ignorance like that is an appeal to the paranormal. If Nature is endowed with unknown and unexplained extraordinary qualities, one can only describe it as paranormal.

The paranormal is by definition something which is unexplainable.

According to Google Web dictionary, the paranormal is defined as:

- Can not be explained by scientific methods; supernatural
- Phenomena that are out of the realm of that which is explainable through conventional science
- Referring to something that is beyond the range of normal human experience or scientific explanation

Does Nature, with all of its odd, unknown, and unexplained properties fit these definitions? Yes.

Guess who also uses appeals to ignorance and the paranormal to explain the workings of their world.

Atheists don't try to explain everything.

I know they don't. They leave what they can't explain to the deus ex machina clockwork of the universe.

Nature is not paranormal just because we can't explain all of it in rational terms.

Actually, that's exactly what the definition for paranormal is.
A former member
Post #: 12
The paranormal is by definition something which is unexplainable.

This definition simply doesn't hold up. This would mean that anything that existed prior to science having an explanation for it was paranormal and then after after science could explain it, it lost that status (eg Large body physics was "paranormal" prior to Newton and Einstein and wasn't paranormal after them). That's a very childish view.
A former member
Post #: 13
It's strange for you to (correctly) point out an appeal to ignorance while committing the same fallacy in your argument.
David D.
DavidDiskin
Lodi, CA
Post #: 66
This thread is just nuts along with the insane concept that nature is god.

I once heard an argument that basically said that nothing is solid. That's right. That chair you're sitting on and the laptop you're reading from is not solid. And from a molecular perspective, that's a true statement. If you were small enough to pass through the electromagnetic bonds that hold molecules together, you could fly right through the laptop screen. If the molecules in your ass could temporarily separate and shrink to the size of particles, they'd fall right through the "solid" chair.

But the problem with thinking like this is that it takes away any purposeful definition of the word "solid".

And that's what the OP is doing here. By redefining "god" to something so vague as "everything around us", then what good is the word "god" in the first place?

By changing the word "nature" to mean "everything" then what good is the word "nature"?

Likewise, you cannot consider nature to be supernatural when super modifies the word nature, the very word you're redefining. That's as stupid as taking a regular pizza and calling it "extra cheese" because it has more cheese than an ordinary rock.

Next you'll be telling us that left is right, up is down, circles are squares, and the Cubs can win the World Series.

How about this: I'm going to define my friend's pet llama as all that is natural. And supernatural. That llama is the universe. It is alpha and omega, the beginning and end. The llama is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything. It is 42. The llama is jesus, yahweh, allah, zeus, and odin. It's the triforce, the holy grail, and ring of mordor. The cake isn't a lie, it's a llama.

And thus, all Christians believe in llamas.
A former member
Post #: 14
As mentioned earlier, Matthew has been equivocating from the start. He's just confusing himself and would do well to take some basic philosophy and informal logic classes.
A former member
Post #: 1
I’m not sure why you guys are engaging this religious trouble-making troll. The first clue should be from his profile. He just joined this group a few days ago, and the first thing he does is start a thread claiming that atheists believe in a God (redefined, incidentally). What a lot of nonsense. Atheists, by definition, do not believe in God. Case closed.

And remember… it’s turtles all the way down!

P.S. Nice cat
A former member
Post #: 15
Call me an optimist, but I like to think that there are people out there that are honestly looking to come as close to truth as they can and they just haven't really been exposed to how to think critically or for themselves.

If there is even a small part of Matthew that's sincerely interested to see if his claims stand up to reason, then pointing out some things may help him.
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