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Re: [webdesign-396] Requests for classes and what's going on.

From: user 7.
Sent on: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:13 PM
nothin to it but to do it. i'm ready to dig in brother! b
 
In a message dated 7/31/2010 9:01:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [address removed] writes:
Bryan,

Thanks for the ideas and the conversation today. We've lots to do:)

As of today we have a 42 inch TV that will suffice as a monitor. Already hooked up, tested and working. So classes will resume very soon.

Kind Regards,
Aoirthoir

--- On Fri, 7/30/10, bryan <[address removed]> wrote:

> From: bryan <[address removed]>
> Subject: Re: [webdesign-396] Requests for classes and what's going on.
> To: [address removed]
> Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 10:21 PM
>
>


>
> A-
>  
> this is the great thing about open
> dialogue. i wasn't even
> thinking as broad as you were about  <<
> Versioning, Backups,
> Security, Server Settings, Command Line and Secure Shell
> interaction, Email
> setups, Mashups, Bash Scripting, Python, Stored Procedures,
> Ruby and other
> skills >>. imo having a group with individuals with
> each skill set
> represented would make for a very informative and
> productive exchange. the best
> thing for me going to any type of meeting is that you have
> experts that
> certainly inform you, but there is always a beginner that
> says something that no
> one was even aware of. weather it's a feature in the
> software, a trick with
> technique, or just a really unique perspective. everyone
> strengthens the group.
> and when groups function like that real learning takes
> place. good
> stuff!
>  
> however, i might be getting ahead of
> myself here. i was merely
> suggesting that those who read this thread and would like
> to work as a team and
> create sellable products should get involved. the format
> for the classes you are
> putting together is entirely up to you, as you well know
> ;)
>  
> don't be so critical of yourself.
> :) how are you short
> changing people that attend? the classes are free and you
> can only fit so much
> instruction in the allotted time frame. every time i get to
> a class i learn
> something intended and unintended. everytime! the fact that
> you are organizing
> things is awesome. and a fee is really not unreasonable,
> especially if there was
> an agenda with tangible take aways. i.e. "today you
> will learn the major tags
> for html5, the new changes in html5, and you get an
> html5 cheat
> sheet."
>  
> i agree that security (and backups) are
> the most important
> areas too. it's an axiom that once you have something
> of value, you had better
> believe that someone is gonna try to take
> it.
>  
> finally, market value for a static
> website is on average $80
> to $100 an hour. add programming it jumps to $120 to $200.
> figure in
> some other add ons like graphic design, copy, social
> media planning, seo,
> marketing, additional widgets, training etc you have
> projects that will price
> out at $4k to $10k. obviously i'm not talking about
> projects for big
> corporations (but that is a possibility too), but small
> business and
> organizations. i'll give ya a call.
>  
> bryan 
>  
>  
>  
>
> In a message dated 7/30/2010 1:22:44
> A.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time, [address removed] writes:
> Bryan,
>
> You bring up again even more good points. One of the
>   things that has held the classes back is the fact that I
> am a coder, not a
>   designer. To really get into the meat of web design
> classes, folks have to
>   know more than html tags and css positioning. I
> personally have enough of a
>   history from working in a print shop to recognize good
> design elements. But
>   I've never been responsible for design myself. As
> well I've never forced
>   myself to use extensively apps like Photoshop, Gimp,
> Inkscape, Adobe
>   Illustrator or other tools of the design masters. So that
> too has hindered us.
>   The number of professionals with graphic design
> experience (not just coding)
>   that have the time to assist us with classes has been
> very limited.
>
> So
>   over the past few weeks I've finally forced myself to
> sit down and start to
>   learn, not just graphic design applications, but
> technique. Of course I have a
>   long way to go. But it's one more piece to the puzzle
> that I can offer when I
>   am teaching folks. Really, the last missing piece.
>
> I agree with you
>   that learning on live, real working sites, is a great way
> to move forward.
>   Whether folks can learn from paid work, or more likely
> contribute to free and
>   open source applications, hands on is simply hands down,
> the best way to
>   learn. And it's not enough to learn how to code
> HTML/CSS and Javascript, and
>   MySQL and PHP. Folks that really want to do this, whether
> for their own
>   personal sites of any weight, their own business, a
> client, or as an employee
>   need to dig deep into things like Versioning, Backups,
> Security, Server
>   Settings, Command Line and Secure Shell interaction,
> Email setups, Mashups,
>   Bash Scripting, Python, Stored Procedures, Ruby and other
> skills. In short,
>   one must be willing to study long, and hard to REALLY
> learn a wide range of
>   tools.
>
> And thus yet another reason the classes end up being a long
>
>   time coming sometimes, because I really hate when I feel
> like I am short
>   changing someone because yes they need to know HTML, but
> backups and
>   versioning and other such things are as important, and
> frankly more important.
>   Having the greatest design in the world is pointless if
> it gets deleted, or
>   cracked, and you don't have your backups.
>
> Ultimately your idea of a
>   collaboration amongst all those learning (and those of us
> with more
>   experience, but still learning as well) is really what
> we're trying to achieve
>   with the meetup. Frankly, if we could get several of us
> together, that are
>   already skilled, but in different areas, for a meeting,
> we could lay out some
>   serious plans along the lines of what you're
> suggesting.
>
> If anyone has
>   any interest, please ring me at 440.521.7214. Maybe we
> can put our heads
>   together and come up with some good ideas.
>
> Kind
>   Regards,
> Aoirthoir
>
> --- On Thu, 7/29/10, bryan
>   <[address removed]> wrote:
>
> > From: bryan
>   <[address removed]>
> > Subject: Re: [webdesign-396] Requests
>   for classes and what's going on.
> > To: [address removed]
> >
>   Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 9:42 PM
> >
> >
> > 
>  
> > 
> >
> > i can get us accounts. i think we can, all
>   willing
> > participants, create a
> > productive work flow. which in
>   fact would be a very
> > important element for any
> >
>   design/development project. even the experts can learn
> from
> > each other
>   on that
> > one.
> >  
> > in my opinion, to create a
>   fully functional
> > dynamic site we would need
> > designers
>   (graphics, illustrations, images, typography,
> > html,
> >
>   css), architects (layout, usability,
> functionality),
> > developers
>  
> > (javascript, jquery, databases, languages). in
> addition, we
> >
>   can as a team create
> > other deliverables like add on
>   widgets, webcopy,
> > seo, and a lot
> > more.
> >
>    
> > getting accounts is not the sticking point. producing
> >
>   visually captivating,
> > relevant, usable, and functional websites is
>   the challenge.
> > i think this is
> > a great opportunity for
>   professionals to share and for
> > beginners to develop or
> >
>   sharpen their skill sets. i'm in!
> >  
> >
> > In a
>   message dated 7/29/2010 4:10:27 P.M. Eastern
> > Daylight Time,
> >
>   [address removed] writes:
> > On Thu,
> >   Jul 29, 2010 at
>   2:41 PM, Aoirthoir An
> >   Broc
> >
>   <[address removed]> wrote:
> > > All good
>  
> >   ideas. In fact we were proposing working
> on an HTML5
>   CMS.
> > There are lots of
> >   folks that >would like
>   to learn and learn with hands
> > on experience. Trying
>  
> >   to do so and getting paid for it though is
> >a job.
>   In
> > order to do so we
> >   need people that want to
>   have sites and want to pay us to
> > do them. I'm not
> >  
>   >exactly salesman of the year though so we're
> left
> > with figuring
>   things out
> >   on our own. :D
> >
> >
> > I
>   forgot to say, the paid job is good as long
> >   everybody
>   learns all the material.
> >
> > Again, for getting jobs try craigs
>  
> >   list.
> >
> >
> >
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