RE: [Clojure-NYC] Great news! Google has agreed to continue to host our meetups!

From: Erik Wynne S.
Sent on: Tuesday, September 7, 2010 11:28 PM

+1 - I think that Alex’s suggestion would be great, too!   I have posted in on the Meetup’s Idea board so others can vote for it.   I also posted an idea for Clojure for .NET Developers.  

 

If you’re interested in either of these, or want to add your own ideas, just go to http://www.meetup.com/Clojure-NYC/ideas/ and vote for your favorites.

 

- erik

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of eric
Sent: Tuesday, September 07,[masked]:19 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [Clojure-NYC] Great news! Google has agreed to continue to host our meetups!

 

Alex,

This is an excellent suggestion.  The issue, I believe, is that there are many people who come to Clojure who have little or no (nor do the desire to have) Java experience.  I can't speak directory to you Android experience but I can tell you that, regarding:

Ruby has Rubygems, Perl has CPAN, Haskell has Hackage/Cabal where you can easily download libraries and install them hassle free, Python libraries similarly easy to install.

Clojure has tight integration with Java libraries and Java has Maven.  There is a vast array and libraries out there in Maven repos and it is a matter of adding a dependency in a pom.xml file (the build script so to speak for Maven).

There is also a build tool called Leiningen:

which makes this work much simpler.

You also may want to check out:

if you have not already which has recipes for getting started with Clojure using the development environment of your choice.

 

In any case, I do think this would be a good topic to cover in one of the next meetings.

It looks like we already have a speaker for this month but perhaps in October.

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

Eric

 

 

On Sep 7, 2010, at 6:50 PM, Alex Haliasos wrote:



Hey Eric,

I think a big topic that needs to be discussed is Clojure install and deploy.

Lisp/Clojure programmers tend to wax on about the superiority of macros and functional programming and how nobody else gets it.

In my opinion, macros and functional programming are the easy part and everyone else does get it.

The hard part of all the Lisps, and the reason they fell out of popularity/never gained traction, is simply that install/deploy/using the libraries was too difficult and frustrating.

Right now, for example, I am trying to program Clojure on Android and use Java libraries to reimplement a code example from a Java book in Clojure.

I am spending half my day at least messing around with configuring eclipse.ini to point at JDK instead of JRE and trying to write anything in Clojure that runs on Android and finding out that Clojure for Android is buggy and possibly only works on Linux, etc.

I also wanted to use Clojure with CouchDB and couldn't figure out how to install the clojure-couchdb libraries from disclojure.

Programmers hate the feeling of wasting time on things that aren't programming. 

In Ruby or Python, everything just runs out of the box, seamlessly integrated with braindead 1 click installers.  You go straight from concept to code.

Ruby has Rubygems, Perl has CPAN, Haskell has Hackage/Cabal where you can easily download libraries and install them hassle free, Python libraries similarly easy to install.

Clojure has not reached that level of ease of use for install and deploy to my knowledge -- if it has please share. 

I'm unaware of a similar automated installer that works seamlessly and did not find download and install to be straightforward.

It's possible that the reason you have so few speakers is because everyone is embarrassed to say they'd love to learn the language but they don't know how to install the damn thing.

It's also entirely possible I'm the village idiot and the only person struggling with this, so I speak for myself.

Also, regular expressions for Clojure is documented extremely poorly, or perhaps it is file access -- I write a lot of programs that involve scraping data out of text files (doesn't everyone?) and did not find this to be easy in Clojure.

I'm fascinated by all the new functional languages, but in my opinion many of them seem to be like politicians -- they promise much and deliver very little. 

I hope to develop into a Clojure programmer because I like the concept of dynamic functional language+macros+Java libraries+runs on mobile platforms but really need help on installation, as stupid as that may sound.

Then I can get up in front of the group and say something intelligent.

Thanks.

Alex



From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Subject: [Clojure-NYC] Great news! Google has agreed to continue to host our meetups!
Date: Thu, 2 Sep[masked]:19:46 -0400

We need speakers for the upcoming meetings.
Please let me know if you have topic you would like to present on or discuss.

Thanks!
Eric




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