Why NOT Do TDD with Bob Allen

If you (or maybe those other folks) have a list of reason for not doing TDD, bring 'em (the reasons and those people).  Regardless of who or what reasons you bring, bring your laptop. We'll have some fun.

 

About Bob Allen:

Coded in the day of "mini" computers that morphed into mainframes. Agile acolite/coach. Getting developer mojo back by actually coding (and hanging with folks smarter than me).

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  • Bob A.

    Thank you Gang for the TDD-for-UI question, and Sheila for an excellent response. Some cautionary notes: one of the primary objectives of TDD is near instantaneous feedback. That said, some of the tools Sheila has listed invite use that defeats this objective:
    1. The use of test recorders is very appealing and can be helpful, but, their over-use often leads to creating very fragile tests that impose too high a maintenance cost. This can lead a team to decide that automated UI testing is a waste of time.
    2. Ajax+JSON driven apps are notoriously difficult to build tests for, but there are techniques. Building unit tests that do NOT exercising both server and client in the same test is key. While this is not an area where I have a lot of experience, the principles remain they same whether it's UI testing or not.
    3. Unit tests don't replace integration, non-functional (load/performance), or exploratory testing.

    Thanks again for a great question.

    1 · September 9, 2013

  • Sheila D.

    Yes there are, WATiN, WATiR, cucumber with capybara, selenium, or akephos. Microsoft CUTI only available with the pricier versions of VisualStudio

    September 9, 2013

  • Thomas S.

    Ditto. I have been committing like a madman ever since Tuesday. Doing the minimum amount to make the test pass makes things so much less stressful!

    September 6, 2013

    • Bob A.

      :-D So very happy to hear. I'll wager your test get better too as you force the desired functionality.

      September 6, 2013

  • Jessica L.

    Great presentation. I learned a good amount from the exercises. Thanks!

    September 6, 2013

    • Bob A.

      Thank you Jessica. It was a pleasure.

      September 6, 2013

  • Brian

    Sorry, I'm not going to be able to make it. I was hoping to gain some insight into how best to do TDD in the context of Cocoa or Android app development.

    1 · September 3, 2013

    • Amber C.

      We don't have any mobile tdd talks coming up, but lots of us do mobile tdd, and I'm sure we could pair or have a bar meetup or something sometime! :)

      September 3, 2013

    • Bob A.

      I noticed that A2 Computer Society has a talk "tentatively" scheduled for October 2nd, http://www.meetup.com...­ titled "Test-Driven Development in iOS"

      September 4, 2013

  • Bob A.

    Here's the link to the free monthly event I mentioned tonight. http://codecraftsmansaturdays.blogspot.com. Hope to see some of you there at our next (9/14) or a subsequent event. Thanks all for a fun evening.

    September 3, 2013

  • Bob A.

    I had a great time and hope everyone else did too.

    September 3, 2013

  • Amber C.

    Ooo, I forgot to mention: Detroit Labs is buying us Pizza House tonight, so come hungry.

    Also, shameless plug: Detroit Labs is looking for ios and android developers, so if you're interested, let me know! :D

    September 3, 2013

  • Sheila D.

    Love TDD and working to like BDD more.

    1 · September 3, 2013

  • Steve R.

    can't make it this time. would it be possible to get the slides? interesting topic.

    September 2, 2013

    • Bob A.

      Sorry we'll miss you tonight. Yes. I will post the slides/ speaker's notes.

      September 3, 2013

    • Steve R.

      Thanks, Bob!

      September 3, 2013

  • Bob A.

    Gee thanks Abdul ;-) I have to agree; let's make it a conversation.

    I did invite folks to bring along those who claim TDD doesn't work for them or their situation, so please, bring it on.
    Bob

    1 · September 3, 2013

  • Steve S.

    I've actually been talking about this very topic for years (mostly to people at conferences over drinks). In fact, I was at it again at Steel City Ruby a couple weeks ago and there were a couple requests for a talk on this very subject. I actually like TDD, but I work in many situations where it hurts more than helps.

    Anywho, just wanted to let you know, I'll be there and I'll be playing both sides.

    September 3, 2013

  • Abdul H.

    If most attendees do or like TDD, then this meeting will be just preaching to the choir. We need people who actually do not like TDD and are proud of it. If that's not possible, we need people who play the "devil's advocate" role, and those devils should prepare some sane/devilish arguments. We should not make it easy for Bob :)

    1 · September 3, 2013

  • Sean Y.

    I'm mostly a designer, but I am beginning to learn web development. Would it be too much trouble if I was attending? I don't want to hold you all back. However, I'd love to learn and walk away with something if I can.

    August 29, 2013

    • Amber C.

      Absolutely no trouble at all. CG is for anyone interested in learning. :)

      3 · August 29, 2013

    • Sean Y.

      Sadly, I ended up double-booking for this time slot and people are counting on me being at my other engagement. I'll be withdrawing myself from attending and keep my eyes out for future CG events. Thx

      September 3, 2013

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