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Re: [atheists-27] Snow Day! Let's talk politics

From: bruce
Sent on: Friday, March 8, 2013 7:20 AM
Unfortunately whatever small I sights might exist in your rant are overwhelmed by your parochial blinders.

At this point the best known Tea Partier, the creator of the Tea Party Caucus in the Senate, is Rand Paul, the only person in the American mind standing up for the Bill of Rights.

And research by social psychologist Jonathan Haidt, who is not a conservative or I suspect religious, shows that even when you subdivide people into more detailed political groups than just two, conservatives and liberals, liberals or people on the left are the people least able to imagine the political positions of other groups or their responses to questions and events.  They are the most closed minded.  Of which  your post seems an example.

On Friday, March 8, 2013, Stephanie Ragusky wrote:
Every social justice issue I'm fighting for evaporates with true separation of church and states. Equality for GLBT, women's right to bodily autonomy, and teaching science rather than myth in the class room. It's why I became an activist atheist.

While it is not 100%, most people use their religion to advocate against these issues. And they fall in the Republican camp. You'd think all these religious republicans would be advocating for the poor, because...Jesus. And yet the party seems to do the opposite. As the bumper sticker says, 'would Jesus really own a gun and vote republican?' Hypocrites in addition to being authoritarian and just wrong.

The SCA should get involved with climate change. When you have committee leaders stating we don't need to worry about climate change because god promised he wouldn't destroy the world again, that's definitely when a secular organization should start talking.

Both major parties are god soaked, but one does a slightly better job on social justice issues and at least pays lip service to the concept of separation of church and state. I've gotten a hand written thank you from my state congress critter for my comments on separation. Republican, Democrat, green, whatever, let them know that that is an issue, because it gets lost in the noise of the prayers they hear.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Don Wharton" <[address removed]>
Date: Fri, Mar 8,[masked]:12 am
Subject: [atheists-27] Snow Day! Let's talk politics
To: <[address removed]>

Woody,
 
We are here to enjoy the company of other atheists/humanists/freethinkers/skeptics ect.  What do we do when we get thogether?  We talk about stuff.  We will never have total agreement on anything.  That is not the point.  It is very enjoyable to understand how and why people feel and think differently. 
 
It is also profoundly boring if we feel locked into only criticizing religion.  Boring = not good.
 
Don


>________________________________
> From: Woody Lipinski <[address removed]>
>To: [address removed]
>Sent: Friday, March 8,[masked]:09 AM
>Subject: Re: [atheists-27] Snow Day! Let's talk politics
>  
>
>Gentlemen,
>
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>please do not attached to the Atheism forum a political agenda one or other party but National Atheist Party or Secular Coalition for America.
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>My  impression is that very liberal or conservative atheists unable to separate his/her political agenda with atheism.  I am from communist country where atheism was the regime method of repression by forcing atheism on religious people as well as political agenda of the communist regime. Both are not good for humanity.
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>I do not wish on atheists forum to promote any current political agenda not related directly to atheism per se. We have so may other groups,  meetups parties oriented, skeptics, philosophy etc. where atheists can discuss their political affiliations.
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>Woody
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>On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Zach Moore <[address removed]> wrote:
>
>Just be careful we don't replace god with group ok?
>>On Mar 7,[masked]:58 PM, "Mathew Goldstein" <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>>I very much like the SCA, and I think they are correct to avoid taking positions on issues like voter ID and instead confine themselves to those issues that have a more direct connection to religious beliefs.  There is almost no controversial issue that cannot be associated with religious beliefs indirectly. Indeed, most issues that divide Democrats from Republicans are likely also an issue that divides secularists from anti-secularists simply because Republicans are more likely to be anti-secularist.  SCA will not take positions on most current issues, including greenhouse gases, the plight of wolves, government transparency, election districting, the minimum wage, unemployment, the budget, taxes, etc.  Voter ID, and most election related issues more generally, falls into this large group of issues that are outside the limited focus of SCA because it is not directly motivated by religious beliefs.  
>>>
>>>
>>>The fact that there is (or may be) a cause and effect relationship between social dysfunction related to government policies, including maldistribution of wealth, and religious belief isn't a strong argument for SCA to change their agenda, but it is a good argument for us as individuals, or as a group, to engage those issues.
>>> 
>>>On Mar 7, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Don Wharton <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Someone successfully made the point that
within the SCA that voter ID laws are not considered a secular issue.  I
was appalled by this since I am rather certain that support for those
laws would come disproportionately from the religious.  Moreover, I
doubt that we would have even 5% of our members here which would
support those laws.
>>>>
>>>>As a matter of science it has been
demonstrated that extreme societal inequality results in substantial
increases societal dysfunction and the probability of complete
collapse of the social order.  The current American trajectory toward
a future where the rich and super-rich take a vastly disproportionate
percentage of the economic wealth of our nation is not good.  Voter ID laws are specifically designed
to disenfranchise those on the low end of the income spectrum to make
the world more comfortable for those who are already extremely
comfortable.  
  How is
this not a secular issue?
>>>>
>>>>Don Wharton
>>>>
>>>>
--
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>>>>This message was sent by Don Wharton ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
>>>>To learn more about Don Wharton, visit his/her member profile
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>>>This message was sent by Mathew Goldstein ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
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>>>Meetup, POB 466





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This message was sent by Stephanie Ragusky ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
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