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Re: [atheists-27] Liberal and Conservative?

From: Chad
Sent on: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 4:29 PM
Bruce, your absolute certainty on what is basically hypothetical is strikingly similar to dogmatism. More than you are hostile you also seem to be bigoted.

bruce <[address removed]> wrote:

Not that I think many of you are up to actually reading anything that falls outside the box of the opinions that you have been fed for decades, but here is a link to a book review of a book on market provision of roads

If you were actually critical thinkers you could read a book with a different point of view before babbling on and on

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/the-privatization-of-roads-highways-human-and-economic-factors#axzz2NMHoHZSb

On Tuesday, March 12, 2013, Joseph B wrote:
not to add to to the fun ... but the problem with government is when it works well, you don't hear about it at all. Only when it fails does it ever make discussions in the public sphere... No one ever says... and on tonight's news... the National Institutes of Standards and Technology functioned perfectly well! 

Truth is, your day is intimately connected with the government. your radio? station that woke you up? that food in your fridge and eggs you ate in your breakfast? the water running to your shower?, the road you drove on? The internet you're using now? Within a single day, you've used more of the government;s resources than you care to admit.  

My problem with libertarianism is it's a philosophy that basically says, markets are the answer to everything. inefficient? use a market! without thinking of either the ethics involved, or the goods being traded.  I doubt I'd find any liberal that would ever say "government is the solution to everything!" but the opposite is true in libertarians.  

Just to steal some examples from Sandel, why can't I walk into an emergency room, and have the doctors provide their services through markets? The ones with the "highest willingness to pay" perhaps should get the care and attention of the doctor next?  

Or why can't orphanages sell their orphans on the free market? clearly if you have the highest willingness to pay, it means you'll cherish the child the best... so what's wrong with selling orphans?  

the idea that because you somehow believe in collective goods, even mundane UN sanctioned ones like say UNCLOS, somehow means you believe in god is absolutely absurd..... 

Joe
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Duff Means <[address removed]> wrote:
The difference between us is, I see the benefit to civilization and thus to myself in keeping your house from burning down, and thus in collecting taxes to ensure that we civilization is able to prevent your house from burning down.

You, on the other hand, are just selfish. Self-concern is a good thing, to be sure - but selfishness is not.


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Duff Means <[address removed]> wrote:
I don't have an argument against my own responsibility for maintaining my own driveway.

But if I build the road connecting your driveway to the fire station, good luck getting me to allow that fire truck to drive on that road to put out the fire at your house.


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Zach Moore <[address removed]> wrote:

Good luck getting me to build your drive way. You might want to buy a Kevlar vest first :)

On Mar 12,[masked]:57 PM, "Duff Means" <[address removed]> wrote:
What about the road leading to my house? What about the road further beyond, that connects my neighborhood to the highway?

If I maintain it at my own cost, my neighbors receive the benefit at no cost. If I don't maintain it, I lose access to emergency services, to deliveries from stores I make purchases from, etc.

If we collectivize the maintenance - then we've established a state, and taxes that must be collected "by force"

There is a limit to libertarianism. Infrastructure is one of those limits.



On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:52 PM, bruce <[address removed]> wrote:
That's why streets and sidewalks should be owned and operated by business districts, neighborhood associations, private companies, anyone but government.  Government doesn't clean them or fix them, allows potholes and sink holes and craters, muggers and rapists, rats and other vermin, marching nazis and the Westboro baptist church.  Anyone else would have a profit motive or some self interest in protecting the consumer.


On Tuesday, March 12, 2013, Duff Means wrote:
The sidewalk leading directly to the store's door is a direct financial benefit, just as much as having the store itself is.


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Zach Moore <[address removed]> wrote:

The side walks are the essence of an indirect financial benefit.





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Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by bruce ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
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