Re: [atheists-27] Trouble with American Skepticism

From: Mathew G.
Sent on: Monday, August 12, 2013 7:00 AM
Women are accusing a particular man of plying with alcohol that is being served at the conferences to get them drunk, and one women says this man raped her and that other women claim claim this man did untoward "things" to them.  Given this context, your comment that "Suggesting that rape is due to women drinking heavily at such events is not just misguided, it is demeaning to women" is bizarre, it is denialism. And your comparing not serving alcohol at conferences to telling women to wear burkas and to segregating dorms at the conferences is also wrong, conference participants have no civil right to be served alcohol at conferences.  Alcohol is not desegregation and it is not a clothing choice, it is a completely optional inebriating substance that conference organizers have no obligation to provide.

On Aug 12, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Mathew Goldstein <[address removed]> wrote:

The question is whether there is any reason to stop serving alcohol at the conferences.  The answer is yes because serving alcohol at the conferences facilitates, and thus increases the risk of, the rape of conference participants.  An insistence that the only actions to avoid rape of conference participants that can be effective are actions which universally prevent rape completely everywhere and at all times is wrong and unreasonable.

On Aug 12, 2013, at 12:31 AM, Martin <[address removed]> wrote:

Mathew,

Well that's quite a lead balloon you are floating. Conferences are, among other things, social functions, where, for instance, friends from different parts of the country may have a rare chance to get together. Many people like a drink at such social functions, it is perfectly normal and acceptable. Also, typically any kind of serious drinking, the Chris Hitchens variety anyway, is done at get-togethers in the evenings, outside of the convines of the conference per se anyway, in bars and restaurants, or simply at the hotel bar. So any alcohol ban at the standard conference reception, Hors d'oeuvre, and dinner functions is not going to stop those who want to drink from doing so.

Suggesting that rape is due to women drinking heavily at such events is not just misguided, it is demeaning to women. Perhaps your next brilliant suggestion would be to have women at conferences wear burkas and sleep in guarded segregated dorms? It is the sexual predators who are the problem, not the victims!

Martin.

On 08/11/[masked]:47 PM, Mathew Goldstein wrote:
On Aug 11, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Martin <[address removed]> wrote:

"And I so no reason to ban alcohol at conferences. These are grown men and women who may decide for themselves how much alcohol, if any, they wish to consume. "

Preventing women from getting themselves drunk and men from then raping them is not a reason to ban alcohol at conferences?  It does not matter their age, what matters is that inebriated women not be raped at conferences, and one way to stop that from happening is to stop serving alcohol.




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Mathew Goldstein ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
To learn more about Mathew Goldstein, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Martin ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
To learn more about Martin, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])
This message was sent by Mathew Goldstein ([address removed]) from DC Atheists Meetup.
To learn more about Mathew Goldstein, visit his/her member profile
Set my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages

Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy