Re: [atheists-27] Re: feminism

From: Don W.
Sent on: Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:15 AM
Hi Allison,
We're glad to have you back from vacation. I knew going into this topic that there was a good chance that it would be a toxic topic. There is a quasi-war in secularism with the Freethought blog cluster being the center of the feminist side and a cluster of MRA sites heaping massive visible vitriol on them. Melody Hensley tells me that she has had to block 400 people. The nonsense extends to death threats, rape threats, and an incredible range of grotesque insults. Given her leadership with a couple of women in secularism conferences, she had emerged as one of the most visible leaders to be attacked.
One friend of mine warned me to stay away from this topic because just touching on the topic will result in the person getting caught in some very nasty crossfire. It took me a while to figure out both that this is a topic that we must address and to figure out that our community has the quality to get through the initial wave of unpleasantness with our civility, humanity and sanity intact.
I give a lot of credit to Rachel with her thoughtful post of last Tuesday. She started out addressing Woody in a very empathetic manner. She went on to tell a story that would inspire all but the most extreme MRA types to have some understanding and empathy for the position of women. Obviously this is not something that I or any other man in our group could have done. It was an extraordinary post and it really says something about how our community (and any community for that matter) is profoundly better off with wider diversity that can create such deeper understanding. Thanks, Rachel!
Allison raised the financial issue with feminism. It deserves further analysis and I will try to get to an additional post on that in the next day or two.

From: Allison S. McDaniel <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sunday, August 25,[masked]:58 AM
Subject: Re: [atheists-27] Re: feminism

Hi Atheists,
I've been on vacation for the past 2 weeks and been away from email, so I'm just reading these posts.  Sorry for the delay.
My thoughts: 
I'm thinking that Carl has had some trouble with women, maybe a nasty divorce or a bad relationship.  I've realized that hating the opposite sex really doesn't get us anywhere.  It just doesn't accomplish anything. 
As a woman, I can say that what I would like to see is the opportunity for women to develop their talents and hold jobs in all fields just like men do.  Some women may just want a family and not a career, others may be much more ambitious, just like men.  I would really like to see the income gap close.  Women on average earn only 70% of what men make in the same positions.  Guys, think about taking 30% of your income over the course of 40 years and invest that money.  What would you have when you are 65?  This is what I'm missing.  Did you know the biggest poverty group in the nation is single white women with children (as far as numbers go, not percents)?
Don't forget that a woman gave birth to you.
Vaginas bring forth life - your life.
A woman loved you and nurtured you while you were a child.
This can make a difference in the type of person you grew up to be.

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