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Mailing List Archive

Subject Sender Date
Re: [atheists-27] Death by robots - Don, This is where the effects of overpopulation comes into play, when we have issues such as this. Look, it's obvious and it's inevitable, Robots will be taking away the least skilled jobs and people will be losi Bo M. May 28, 2016 4:42 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Hawking – Genius - Preview not available Don W. May 28, 2016 3:17 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Psychic Atheists? - Amen ;) ------------------------------­-------------- On Fri, 5/27/16, Robert W Ahrens wrote: Subject: Re: [atheists-27] Psychic Atheists? To: [address removed] Date: Friday, May 27, 2016, 1:13 PM Christian sites see Siggy May 28, 2016 12:22 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Hawking – Genius - Preview not available Martin May 27, 2016 7:28 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Death by robots - I regard this issue, raised by Bo, to be a profoundly import Don W. May 27, 2016 4:01 PM
Imaginary Friends - I am listening to Science Friday 88.5FM. They are talk Don W. May 27, 2016 2:58 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Psychic Atheists? - Preview not available Robert W A. May 27, 2016 1:13 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Psychic Atheists? - Preview not available Don W. May 27, 2016 11:43 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Psychic Atheists? - Don, I would bet money that there is a christian that has joined us that is reading our conversations to gather evidence that we're all satanists like my mother told me growing up. My mother always said that all peopl Bo M. May 27, 2016 3:35 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Hawking – Genius - True. Science has discredited a direct and literal reading of the Bible. That is why many Christians interpret it in a more figurative, metaphorical sense. But that begs the question of what parts are literally true and Tom F. May 26, 2016 5:05 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 26, 2016 1:31 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Death by robots - I sent this before but I did not see it echo back so I am re Don W. May 26, 2016 12:29 PM
Psychic Atheists? - Preview not available Don W. May 26, 2016 12:24 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Hawking – Genius - Preview not available Don W. May 26, 2016 12:24 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Hawking – Genius - That was a good show. No one can prove or disprove the existence of a creator, but science has shown that the universe can function without one. We don't need a higher power to explain how things work. Sent from X Tom F. May 26, 2016 6:35 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 25, 2016 11:53 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Death by robots - I like to use the term anti-entropy for myself to understand Don W. May 25, 2016 10:07 PM
Hawking – Genius - Preview not available Don W. May 25, 2016 9:38 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Death by robots - Preview not available Martin May 25, 2016 6:24 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Death by robots - Martin, It is entirely possible for a reproducing, co Don W. May 25, 2016 5:35 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 25, 2016 5:22 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Mathew, I am simply making the point that in th Martin May 25, 2016 4:58 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I doubt that people are "without consciousness" when they are sleep walking or drugged or hypnotized and responding to other people. &nb Mathew G. May 25, 2016 12:46 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Mathew, Actually your reference doesn't say " many Martin May 25, 2016 11:20 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Mathew, Well we agree that characterizing electronic s Martin May 25, 2016 10:01 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I was uncertain of some of your claims about sleep walking, so I searched google and the first link was this: Mathew G. May 25, 2016 12:49 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I agree that characterizing electronic systems as conscious is dubious and that is why I am questioning Don's argument that they are con Mathew G. May 24, 2016 11:31 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Death by robots - Bo, Firstly apologies - this is in reply to an old message of Martin May 24, 2016 10:02 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Don and Mathew, I am having a tough time following the Martin May 24, 2016 7:24 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Yes, two identical physical systems will have identical properties, omitting variations from quantum effects and including its environme Mathew G. May 24, 2016 7:10 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 24, 2016 1:42 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Yes, and a clothing iron not only tracks its temperature, but it acts on this information to maintain a temperature set by a knob.   Mathew G. May 23, 2016 8:33 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 23, 2016 3:06 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Without self-referential awareness there is no consciousness. So according to your own argument below, a camera lacks consciousnes Mathew G. May 23, 2016 8:03 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 23, 2016 3:15 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I am not excluding anything beyond our phones, televisions, cars, computers, etc, being conscious. I exclude that because they are Mathew G. May 22, 2016 2:43 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Mathew, Your quotes around my "full conscious" illust Don W. May 22, 2016 2:00 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I would not label a cellphone, to TV, or any existing human made computers Mathew G. May 22, 2016 10:31 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Pankaj, I have no problem with people feeling wonderf Don W. May 21, 2016 3:12 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - i think it is more like saying that the moon causes tides through the process of "tidemergence", which is a word which signifies a correlation. it has nothing more to say on the mediating mechanisms (which is basically all of phys Pankaj May 21, 2016 1:43 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Regarding this comment: "However, to say that a certain configuration of matter creates subjective experience, and on being asked "how", to say "its emergence silly" seems like clumsy science to me, or rather, a science in its infancy which is claiming m Mathew G. May 20, 2016 12:59 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 20, 2016 12:33 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - This might be entirely unrelated to the conversation, but the dichotomy between "hard problem" and "easy problems" in the Wikipedia link made me think of a very interesting video on the "P vs. NP" Clay Ins Tyler May 19, 2016 5:46 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I am rather agreeing with you. When something is so difficult to understand people immediately will find a way to explain and find out that must be third way not physical base or "spiritual"- mental based on physical and third way Woody L. May 19, 2016 5:07 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Intentional Communities - I have friends who designed and built a marvelous Co-Housing Don W. May 19, 2016 1:09 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 19, 2016 1:03 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I think a "hard problem" does exist. I don't see proponents of the "hard problem" asserting that there is "spirit stuff" which evokes loathsome religious associations so strongly for Don. Subjective experie Pankaj May 19, 2016 9:39 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Intentional Communities - There is a free online directory of "Intentional Communities" at     www.ic.org/directory/ There is also a "Co-Housing" directory Bruce May 18, 2016 11:44 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - I am dubious that a claim that zombies could be real is equivalent to saying that magic is real. Since life is a complex input and Mathew G. May 18, 2016 4:38 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Intentional Communities - Bo, Don W. May 18, 2016 4:17 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 18, 2016 2:54 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Sean Carroll minored in philosophy at Villanova university. He is not a credentialed philosopher and I agree that he is not strong Mathew G. May 18, 2016 2:31 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - A bird that changes its food stashing behavior when other birds are nearby because the other birds are potential thiefs provides an oppo Mathew G. May 18, 2016 1:43 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Intentional Communities - Ath eists and/or Humanists are too diverse. Norm May 18, 2016 7:53 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Intentional Communities - We'd be an irascible group. ------------------------------­-------------- On Wed, 5/18/16, Bo Matthew wrote: Subject: [atheists-27] Intentional Communities To: [address removed] Date: Wednesday, May 18, 2016, 2:29 AM Siggy May 18, 2016 4:51 AM
Intentional Communities - Hey guys, I was on a philosophy chatroom and someone made me aware of communes, which are formally known as intentional communities. It's basically saying "Bump this society, i'm creating my own" and you Bo M. May 18, 2016 2:29 AM
Clarification - There may be something that should be clear to us all. Don W. May 18, 2016 2:12 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 18, 2016 1:17 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 18, 2016 12:36 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - There are people who mistakenly think that animals feel no pain and therefore it is wrong to ask questions about how we distinguish zomb Mathew G. May 17, 2016 11:29 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Coyne, Harris, Carroll, etc. all reject that there is an immaterial aspect Mathew G. May 17, 2016 10:50 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - The probability of people talking about this or that is the wrong measure. That is a measure of popular opinion which may be ignor Mathew G. May 17, 2016 10:05 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Preview not available Don W. May 17, 2016 3:36 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - [Warning: This is very sci-fi-ish. Might not be to everyone's taste.] Brian, I just checked out the two links. They were both really interesting although I have to say the surgical video was gory. I wasn't quite prepared for that, but it was amazin Siggy May 17, 2016 2:02 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - You are starting to discuss a fascinating topic "Philosophy of Mind" that I audited at GMU in Fall 2015.  I am ready to audit again if possible because I was unable to read everything with� Woody L. May 17, 2016 12:10 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Mathew G. May 16, 2016 9:13 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Mathew, Qualia is just another term for our subjecti Don W. May 16, 2016 2:38 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - Siggy, If you watch the video I sent in the previous email, you'll see just that. They already have lung systems that is already in use, and they have human-patient simulators where the patient actually does simulate Bo M. May 16, 2016 2:31 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - I'm hopeful that various meat alternatives will really take hold and will prove to be cost-effective and environmentally friendly. I've actually really taken to using seitan in stir fry and stews, and that's just a wheat gluten product that's been around Siggy May 16, 2016 2:15 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - All! EUREKA! I've found the human dummy! PETA of course hates animal medical research so they funded these computer simulation human robots, as well as the lab grown tissue testing, you have to see to believe how real Bo M. May 16, 2016 12:52 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:57:42AM -0400, Bo Matthew wrote: > Do you think it is possible for bioengineers to create "dummy" humans > for studying. As I understand it, this is already happening: doctors took a sample of cancerous growth from arensb May 16, 2016 12:18 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - All, The source that I put in from the last email is actually false, there was no lab-grown baby, it's one of those fake news websites like "The Onion". I found this out after reading an article headline tha Bo M. May 16, 2016 12:05 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - Don & Siggy, Do you think it is possible for bioengineers to create "dummy" humans for studying. From what I understand, testing animals for human vaccines and medicine is not very effective (ex. rats react Bo M. May 16, 2016 11:57 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - The hard problem is to understand how/why our experience exists, which is a different question from whether qualia exist as the root cau Mathew G. May 16, 2016 9:07 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - Perhaps another way to think about it is the fact that when we find the proposed "solution" so noxious as to be psychological traumatizing to the beneficiaries of such a solution, it hints that there may be non-obvious psychological or sociological harms Siggy May 16, 2016 8:21 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - By the way, for the many new members of our group I have to Don W. May 16, 2016 2:45 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Minority Rights in Medical Testing - I tend to reject such questions on principle. What we Don W. May 16, 2016 12:33 AM
Minority Rights in Medical Testing - All, I myself and many people on this newsletter are effective utilitarians. However, a point that's been on my mind recently is minority rights, for example, humans or animals that may be used for medical testi Bo M. May 15, 2016 11:47 PM
RE: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - I agree, Don. ------------------------------­-------------- On Sun, 5/15/16, Don Wharton wrote: Subject: RE: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? To: [address removed] Date: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 8:48 PM Siggy May 15, 2016 9:18 PM
RE: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - Preview not available Don W. May 15, 2016 8:48 PM
Re: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - 18 countries had an IQ of 84 and they ar Mathew G. May 15, 2016 11:40 AM
RE: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - Preview not available Don W. May 14, 2016 11:42 PM
RE: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - Preview not available Don W. May 14, 2016 10:23 PM
Re: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - Don, My main concern with AI is not with humans. My main concern is with non-human animals and the environment. They are electrically powered, and they don't need animals for anything. If these machines are incapable Bo M. May 14, 2016 8:34 PM
Re: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - The generational rate of change of IQ has consistently been too high to be the result of population wide genetic changes so there must b Mathew G. May 14, 2016 12:11 PM
Re: [atheists-27] What is Intelligence? - The more useful a technology is the more Mathew G. May 14, 2016 11:38 AM
What is Intelligence? - Preview not available Don W. May 13, 2016 11:59 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Here is Sean Carroll describing "poetic naturalism", which he uses to describe himself, Mathew G. May 13, 2016 9:41 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Death by robots - Don, Don't forget, i'd be really interested to read it. - Bo On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Don Wharton & Bo M. May 13, 2016 3:49 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - "Hard problem" as a label merely emphasizes it has a "beyond imagination" q Mathew G. May 13, 2016 3:01 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - The so called "hard problem" literally has no meaning. Don W. May 13, 2016 1:20 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Death by robots - Let me be the first to swear allegiance to our new robot overlords! (please spare me) - Jared On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Bo Jared R. May 13, 2016 1:11 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Death by robots - I have been working on a post that directly addresses AI int Don W. May 13, 2016 1:06 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Death by robots - Siggy, I wouldn't call them psychological failings, these robots would probably be completely logical because they would not have any incentive to be illogical (no emotions, no social pressures, etc). So if removing a Bo M. May 12, 2016 11:10 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Death by robots - It's interesting to think about. I would think sentient AI's would be as vulnerable to developing the same psychological failings as any other sentient beings. And therefore could be as destructive and narrow-minded as humans to each other and the planet. Siggy May 12, 2016 10:58 PM
Death by robots - All, Before I begin, I don't want anyone to get the impression that I am suicidal or depressed. I began thinking about this after reading Stephen Hawking's opinion on Artificial Intelligence, he says that AI Bo M. May 12, 2016 10:27 PM
Sean Carroll on the "Hard Problem" - Mathew G. May 12, 2016 1:52 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Raskin Update - Preview not available Don W. May 11, 2016 8:04 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Raskin Update - Mathew, since 2007 when I first time joined WASH and met DW I am promoting such idea. But even CFI Mr. Lindsay igored it because for him third party in the USA will not have infuance in American politics. I ask him for th Woody L. May 11, 2016 5:43 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Raskin Update - Preview not available Don W. May 10, 2016 10:37 PM

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