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Mailing List Archive

Subject Sender Date
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Jared, Now from entirely moral perspective, as a critical thinker and a former law enforcement officer, would you ever break a law if the crime was not immoral? I don't mean if it was absolutely necessary to break the law, rather just so Bo M. Feb 12, 2016 2:20 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Colette, Assuming you are asking me this question, autassassinophilia doesn't appear to be a problem if no one is killed or seriously injured. However, if someone did agree to be killed or seriously injured, it seems Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 7:13 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Bo, These questions seem to be getting way off topic, but I suppose I will answer anyway.  With regard to whether I have the power to reject defending a case, I am not currently a criminal defense lawyer, and even if I w Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 7:05 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Along that line, what do you think about people with the autassassinophilia fetish - aka the fetish of being killed. There have been cases of someone consenting to being killed for the sexual gratification of themselves and the killer. Some Colette G. Feb 11, 2016 6:08 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Jared, Do you have the power to reject defending a case that you feel the defendant is a terrible person (ex. a serial rapist)? If so, just for the sake of my interest,  let's say that you could not reject a case and that you had Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 6:05 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Bo, I do not think assisted suicide is morally wrong.  I haven't thought much about defending someone charged with this crime, and it is difficult to argue in the abstract; so I would probably try to convince the pro Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 5:55 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Is Killing Wrong? No I concluded that it is not wrong to kill, rather it is wrong to cause or support the suffering of another being, (Factory Farm animals are sadistically tortured) and it is moral to prevent the Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 5:34 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Sorry, precognition not precondition.  My phone is being pedantic. On Feb 11,[masked]:10 PM, "Devin Carey" < [address removed] > wrote: Devin C. Feb 11, 2016 5:11 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - I'm in the camp of self defense is justified or to stop greater atrocities from happening (then again, without precondition we cant always know if the greater atrocity was a certainty) .  Murder, to me, is inherently evil and I count amo Devin C. Feb 11, 2016 5:10 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - I'm having this philosophical debate with myself in my own head, on whether it's wrong to kill and why. Any thoughts anyone? - Bo On Thursday, February 11, 2016, Devin Carey < Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 4:48 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - She is part of an atheist meet up.  Of course not...so long as it's babies. On Feb 11,[masked]:38 PM, "Bo Matthew" < [address removed] > wrote: Devin C. Feb 11, 2016 4:39 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Colette Do you find cannibalism to be immoral? - Bo On Thursday, February 11, 2016, Colette Gabrielle < [address removed] > wrot Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 4:37 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - I find the vegan or vegetarian lifestyle to be morally superior to the meat eating lifestyle. Yet I continue to eat meat and animal prod Colette G. Feb 11, 2016 4:35 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Bo, No.  I became a lawyer mainly for the intellectual challenge.  Although, I have felt job satisfaction both from defending those I felt were unjustly charged, and putting in jail people for doing bad things. Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 3:37 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Jared. To defend "offenders" that you felt were the victims of unjust law. - Bo On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Jared Re Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 3:32 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Bo, I am not sure I understand your question.  Is what the reason I became a lawyer? - Jared On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Bo M Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 3:21 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Everyone, What are your thoughts on the vegan lifestyle due to ethical obligation? - Bo On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Jared Reev Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 3:20 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Don, My point was not to discuss the level or explicitness of any possible crime, or whether you or anyone else here would be prosecuted.  I am simply giving a reasonable warning that if someone wants to discuss committi Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 3:17 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Preview not available Don W. Feb 11, 2016 3:16 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Jared, Is that why you chose to become a lawyer. - Bo On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Jared Reeves < Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 3:10 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Bo, Yes, I have had cases where I felt the law was unjust.  I have prosecuted people for drug possession and use.  As you hinted, my job wasn't to decide law or policy, it was to enforce it. Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 3:03 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Don, It's fine with me if people want to discuss drug policy. I was concerned about discussion of specific transactions when a person commented that she wanted to be a customer. The comment may have been made in jest but it made me unco Mary B. Feb 11, 2016 2:51 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Correction "It was as if he thought"* On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Bo Matthew < bomatthew1@gmai Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 2:51 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Jared, In your time as a prosecutor, did you ever have any cases where you felt as if a punishment for a defendant was unjust or disagreed with a law but had to abide by it?? The prosecutor I had was super cool, it was as Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 2:47 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Preview not available Don W. Feb 11, 2016 2:46 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Bo, Our current drug laws that classify marijuana as a schedule 1 (no medicinal purpose) and criminalize the possession and use of it.  Also any drug law that criminalizes any form of possession/use or ca Devin C. Feb 11, 2016 2:35 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Don, Fair enough.  Although I should warn you that your time, money, and liberty may not be worth the small audience who would likely hear your plea.  I can think of better uses of my resources with less risk and a larg Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 2:16 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Preview not available Don W. Feb 11, 2016 2:06 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Devin, What would you say those unjust laws are? I'm not very fluent with law, I just go by common thought. - Bo On Thursday, February 11, 2016, Devin Carey < Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 2:06 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - I'm good.  I had to disclose all of this when I got my security clearance so the government already knows my dirty deeds.  I also smoked 2 days before I left for boot camp to join the navy when I was 18 and my recruiters, who tested me Devin C. Feb 11, 2016 2:03 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Preview not available Don W. Feb 11, 2016 2:01 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Don, While your email was addressed to Mary, I feel obliged to respond because I agreed with her sentiments, and feel my experience may be helpful. First, there is nothing wrong with debating idea Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 1:55 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Preview not available Don W. Feb 11, 2016 1:51 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Preview not available Don W. Feb 11, 2016 1:41 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - God saw all that he had made, and it was very GOOD.  And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he reste Devin C. Feb 11, 2016 10:53 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - I was not inferring you to use them however, I myself don't even use the substances that have no long term effect, such as psychedelics and marijuana. I personally don't like being in an altered state of mind, where one can not cont Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 10:48 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Mathew, Laws do lag.  However, I value my body and mind too much to roll the dice with synthetic, untested, who knows what's in it. - Jared Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 10:44 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Laws can, and sometimes do, target synthetic drugs. Maryland has a bill no Mathew G. Feb 11, 2016 10:39 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Bo, As a lawyer, I can tell you that argument wouldn't work in most jurisdictions.  Also, your anecdotal evidence didn't prove the unconstitutional argument was the reason your case was dismissed.  In Gonzale Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 10:36 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - I believe that all drugs should be legal. One because of the constitution, and two, I believe the consequences of using drugs are self-enforcing, at least the cocaine and heroin and so on. The FDA would continue making their commercials to Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 10:22 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - That is some sovereign citizen level of argumentation there.  Must have been a very good lawyer. I'm originally from CA and had a marijuana card when I was living there.  In fact, at[masked] a year and any Devin C. Feb 11, 2016 10:13 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Laws like the illegality of drugs are against the constitution, therefore the laws are invalid because it would be illegal to create that law in the first place. I had a charge several years ago, however my badass lawyer used the argument that I just sta Bo M. Feb 11, 2016 9:54 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - I concur with Mary.  Regardless of state laws (or DC laws), it is still a federal offense to possess, sale, or grow marijuana. Here are the penalties.   http://norml.org/laws/item/fe Jared R. Feb 11, 2016 9:07 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - While Don's post was interesting, I do not think that this should be a thread here. If there is a need for additional comment is there a way to set up a place to do it elsewhere? On T Mary B. Feb 11, 2016 8:22 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Grow Club DC - Preview not available Jeannine Feb 11, 2016 8:17 AM
Grow Club DC - Preview not available Don W. Feb 10, 2016 8:55 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - Tom F. Feb 7, 2016 6:46 PM
Welcome to New Members & Community Discussion - Don W. Feb 7, 2016 1:08 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - I agree with Pankaj, in part.  First, I disagree in that it is unlikely I could ever support Bernie Sanders because I think he has a poor political ideology.  Second, I agree that a person's religious beliefs should not be a litmus te Jared R. Feb 7, 2016 7:13 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - For everybody's amusement, I thought I'd share this video. It's basically a list of non-believers to the song "Waiting on the World to Change" by John Mayer. Maybe they should add Bernie Sanders to it now. Vineet Feb 7, 2016 1:24 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - The college for all proposal applies onl Mathew G. Feb 7, 2016 12:30 AM
RE: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - Pankaj, There is overwhelming evidence that progressi Don W. Feb 6, 2016 9:47 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - i think all the other progressive policy views Bernie brings to the table more than overwhelm his being religious - really or pretentiously. also, i don't think he is such a political imbecile as to tote his atheistic beliefs on the pre Pankaj Feb 6, 2016 9:11 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - I like Bernie Sanders because he's authentic; you could even call him the Ron Paul of the Left. But I find some of his ideas too far out, unl Tom F. Feb 6, 2016 4:31 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - Woody, I think Bernie is more atheistic than an anyon Don W. Feb 6, 2016 4:19 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - Andrew Feb 6, 2016 3:23 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - None of us are mind readers. However, the most powerfu Don W. Feb 6, 2016 2:20 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - If you are really thinking and believing that you can be an American president today you do not have choice to show people that you a man of faith in something. A very simple calculation otherwise you will not to be elected.  40% percent o Woody L. Feb 6, 2016 12:02 AM
Bernie Sanders CNN Town Hall on his "spiritual feelings" - I'm not the type to make assertions without absolute evidence since I - as a skeptic - understand how the burden of proof works but C'MON....Bernie....... http Devin C. Feb 5, 2016 9:46 PM
Should WASH Become a Chapter of AHA - Preview not available Don W. Feb 5, 2016 5:07 PM
Talking to the Enemy - Preview not available Don W. Feb 5, 2016 5:04 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Free Speech - Allison is quite correct that we have to think about the con Don W. Feb 4, 2016 12:39 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Free Speech - I agree with a lot of these statements regarding free speech.. There have been a few times when the KKK has come to Washington, DC to rally on the National Mall and I wanted to go see them and listen to them out of curiosity, but would people automatical Allison S. M. Feb 4, 2016 9:06 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - There is also an inconsistency. The people who decide who cannot speak, or who disrupt an event featuring a speaker they do not li Mathew G. Feb 3, 2016 9:20 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - There are certain common-law limits on free speech. It can be punished if it's libelous, slanderous, intended to provoke harm to another, or a viol Tom F. Feb 3, 2016 7:35 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Devin, I wanted to get back to the free speech issue Don W. Feb 3, 2016 4:47 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Preview not available Don W. Feb 3, 2016 12:36 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Thanks Don! Barring some unforeseen event, I plan on being at the Atheist happy hour at James Hoban's on Wednesday, and would be happy to discuss if you are interested. Best, Nick Nick Jan 31, 2016 11:29 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Nick, Thanks so much for your thoughtful Don W. Jan 31, 2016 11:20 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Thank you so much for your posts, Nick.  I have been reading these exchanges with interest and reall Sam M. Jan 31, 2016 11:03 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - So I actually agree with most of the stuff that was written in response to my e-mails. I should've been more specific when I used the phrase " economics literature " -- I wasn& Nick Jan 31, 2016 4:46 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Here is an early 2012 article by Krugman http://krug Mathew G. Jan 30, 2016 11:31 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - An irony here is that the Cold War was very much utilized as a justification for changing laws to establish government monotheism in the name of our being different/better than the Soviet Union (read the Congressional record, this is sometimes very blata Mathew G. Jan 30, 2016 6:57 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - I know you are writing to Nick, but I will say anyway that I think it strange that someone who achieved the professional success that Greenspan did endorsed Ayn Rand's views as totally as Greenspan appeared to. Ayn Rand was smart, but as a philosopher or Mathew G. Jan 30, 2016 5:56 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Thank you Mathew. I do find myself strongly differing Don W. Jan 30, 2016 4:42 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Preview not available Don W. Jan 30, 2016 4:12 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - And I think Krugman would argue that for some economists there is no alternative evidence, no change to the evidence as circumstances ch Mathew G. Jan 30, 2016 4:08 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Jared, it is like this: The evidence that communicates in favor of supernaturalism is sparse and weak while the evidence that spea Mathew G. Jan 30, 2016 2:54 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Yes, I think most people are skeptical of government. I also think that it's fairly clear the "big government" is not currently the problem i Claude C. Jan 30, 2016 1:45 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - I speak against government actions, laws, and policies regularly. I think your definition of what is required to qualify as being Mathew G. Jan 30, 2016 12:13 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - I feel like I have hijacked this discussion, so I will only add my final thoughts on this matter (unless someone wants to ask me a question).  I was religious most of my life, and only very recently became an atheis Jared R. Jan 30, 2016 5:53 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - I think that's a fair characterization. I'd say that there is far less disagreement in economics literature about what IS true than about how we sh Nick Jan 29, 2016 8:36 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Years ago, I heard Milton Friedman speak. He said that economists tend to mostly agree on economics. Where they strongly disagree is ab Tom F. Jan 29, 2016 7:45 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Economics-response to Nick - Hi Don, Even though I work in economics, I may actually have a slightly more negative view of the field than you do. If you're using the term "science" in the most general sense of the wor Nick Jan 29, 2016 5:04 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Colette, I agree that corporations and (our) government are generally answerable to the public in different ways.  However, I am not sure I agree that they are incomparable.  What do you mean that they are incomparable, Jared R. Jan 29, 2016 4:57 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that corps and gov are answerable to the public in different ways. They're not comparable. I agree Colette G. Jan 29, 2016 4:48 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Colette, Great questions.  You seem to imply that collective financial will is inferior to voter will.  However, your example doesn’t seem to support this c Jared R. Jan 29, 2016 4:39 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - "Which institution do you think is more answerable to a collective will, corporations or government?" Corporations are obligated to collective financial will. Money speaks. If the consumers stop purchasing a product, the company is forced to change o Colette G. Jan 29, 2016 4:22 PM
Economics-response to Nick - Nick, Thank you for your most excellent contribution Don W. Jan 29, 2016 3:00 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Nick, Thanks for the information.  I think people use talk in broad terms debating economics, such as liberal vs conservative, as a code for their perspective on reality and what that person values.  For example, someon Jared R. Jan 29, 2016 2:02 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Don, Thanks for the reply.  You make a great point that both corporations and government can be "good" or "evil."  After all, they are run by humans, and often are a reflection of individuals' mo Jared R. Jan 29, 2016 1:46 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Pankaj, Which institution do you think is more answerable to a collective will, corporations or government?  One could argue a company is more answerable to a collective will, because as consumers we can stop consuming t Jared R. Jan 29, 2016 1:40 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Jared, I think the difference can be posed thus: which is more likely - An institution which is (however imperfectly) answerable to the collective will uphold the interests of the collective, or an institution which is no Pankaj Jan 29, 2016 1:29 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Hi all, This is Nick Buffie of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. I haven't read through all the previous messages in full, but I thought I'd weight in with a few points. Nick Jan 29, 2016 12:54 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Jared, You are absolutely correct when you criticize Don W. Jan 29, 2016 12:42 PM
Re: [atheists-27] FW: Support the Darwin Day Resolutions - We asked Maryland Governor Hogan to issue a Darwin Day proclamation. It is easy to ask, there is a web site for citizens to submit Mathew G. Jan 29, 2016 9:32 AM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - I find it interesting that so many people are ignorant of their own biases.  Some people assume corporations are inherently evil, and others assume it is the government that is inherently evil.  Does less power of government/corporations Jared R. Jan 29, 2016 9:26 AM
FW: Support the Darwin Day Resolutions - Preview not available Don W. Jan 28, 2016 11:49 PM
Re: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Libertarianism is a great concept in theory. What's not to love about individual liberty, free markets, and minimum bureaucracy? But its underlying assumption that people will not abuse their freedom is its biggest flaw. Vineet Jan 28, 2016 8:38 PM
RE: [atheists-27] Pro-Libertarianism - Tom, Obviously with this last post you are not lookin Don W. Jan 28, 2016 8:25 PM

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