Detroit Area MahJong Message Board › Standardized Rules for Riichi

Standardized Rules for Riichi

Adam
akilleen
Group Organizer
Ferndale, MI
Post #: 24
There are many different sources of rules for Riichi, which can lead to confusion at times. I wanted to see what everyone though about adopting a standard set of rules. There are 2 different sets of rules that I was looking at.

USPML(United States Professional Mahjong League) has their rules here
EMA (European Mahjong Association) has their rules here

What do you think? Should we adopt one of these rule sets? Should we develop our own?

For what it's worth, I am leaning toward the USPML rules, but it that may be my laziness talking since the rule and scoring sheet is short and sweet.
A former member
Post #: 16
USPML is the rule set that i know and use. I will be teaching this rule set the Friday I set up
Merle
user 11831024
Ypsilanti, MI
Post #: 4
Doing a quick once over here are the major differences I noticed:

Kuikae (ie making a pon/chi call then discarding the same tile)
USPML Not allowed (which is what I would expect), but it also disallows discarding any other tile that would complete the set (which is new to me). So if you had a 234 in your hand and called a chi on the 1 you could not discard the 4.
EMA No mention of kuikae, so I guess it's allowed.

Open Simples
USPML Allowed
EMA Not allowed

Open Riichi
USPML Allowed
EMA Not allowed

There's other stuff like Chombo (penalties for mistakes) and Head Bump (if more than one person calls ron who wins) that are mentioned in one but not the other, but I don't feel like finding/listing every difference.

I'm used to playing with EMA-style style rules (at least for the differences I noticed). Regarding the 3 big differences I noticed:

Kuikae - I'd be fine either way. My personal perferance is to go with neither and use the Ron2-style of the rule : you can't call a tile and then immediately discard the same tile, but you can call the 1 in my earlier 234 situation and discard the 4.

Open Simples - I'd prefer it to be disallowed. It leads to too many quick/cheap hands.

Open Riichi - I'd prefer it disallowed. Part of the fun for me is the pressure/stress of working around someone's riichi, open riichi's sort of ruin that.
Jocilyn W.
user 12236492
Ann Arbor, MI
Post #: 3
I am used to playing with EMA's RCR rules, since they're used on MahongTime.com. Although, it seems like you can also play MCR rules on their site as well so it wouldn't be too hard to learn that version (based on Hong Kong?).

USPML doesn't sound very attractive. I agree Kuikae seems like it would be difficult to work around (and even remember). Open simples doesn't make a lot of sense to me (too easy, doesn't give people who are trying to build a good hand a chance, and you wouldn't be forced to make tenpai nearly as often). Open Riichi doesn't seem fair to the person who managed to keep their hand closed throughout. It's basically giving them a yaku just for being in wait.

That being said, it looks like RCR has a number of ways to foul in a tournament. Up until now we were basically forgiving most of these. Would we want to start enforcing them?
Adam
akilleen
Group Organizer
Ferndale, MI
Post #: 25
I like the idea of disallowing open simples. I agree that it leads to a lot of cheap/quick hands. I think Kuikae can be allowed, I'm not sure what disallowing it is really going to add to the game. With Open Riichi, I really wouldn't mind it being allowed. Open riichi is going to be very rare. Just to make sure you understand, you can not declare an open riichi after you have already opened, the same as regular riichi. An open riichi only happens when you have stayed closed. It is only after the fact that it's opened. Nobody is going to purposely deal into it since it's open, so it would really only be a tactic used after 2-3 people have already declared riichi. I don't think the rule really ruins anything per se, but I'm also not attached to the rule, so we can do away with it if that is what most people want to do.

I think enforcing any penalties will be dependent on who is playing at the time. We haven't really had any tournaments (though it is something I think would be cool to do at some point), so I think it just depends on how new the person is that broke the rule.

I am going to go through both sets of rules later on tonight to find more differences. If what we come up with strays too far from either style I may draft something up myself.
Merle
user 11831024
Ypsilanti, MI
Post #: 5
OK I get your point about open riichi's. I've never played with them, so I was just imagining someone randomly going open and waiting on a tsumo to increase the value of their hand. At the time I just couldn't think of how it could be used constructively.

The only situation I've run into where the kuikae rule makes sense is say you are in tenpai and the guy to your right is in riichi. You have a 123 in your hand and the guy to your left discards a 1. So you chi the 1 and discard the other 1. This lets you stay in tenpai and make a safe discard. It's sort of a cheesey thing to do, but I don't think it's a big deal.
Jocilyn W.
user 12236492
Ann Arbor, MI
Post #: 4
Oh sorry, I didn't take the time to research the topic under discussion. *smacks forehead*

Here is an example of Open Riichi:

http://mahjong.wikido...­

These are the rules that are being debated:

http://reachmahjong.c...­

Yes, you're right, no reason to disallow Open Riichi. It's similar to playing noten riichi--it can't really hurt.
Amanda P.
mandabeastie
Ann Arbor, MI
Post #: 8
Wow... Well, I think it's a good idea to have a standard set of rules, I don't know how qualified I am to provide input as I haven't been playing that long in the first place.

However, I am most familiar with the rules on Mahjong Time... however they're usually applied..

Adam
akilleen
Group Organizer
Ferndale, MI
Post #: 26
Jo, good find on that 2nd link. That gives us a better idea of the different options.

So, what I came up with ended up being very similar to EMA rules. Here is what I came up with. See this page for reference.

Allowed (Ari)
Akadora (Red Dora)
Atozuke (Backdoor Win) (I'm not quite sure what this means, anyone have an idea?)
Ippatsu (One-shot)
Kandora/Kanuradora (Dora from kong + hidden)
Kuikae (Chow switch)
Nagashimangan (Honorable discard)
Open Riichi (2 yaku for opening your hand on riichi)
Renhou (Blessing of man = Yakuman)
Ryanhanshibari (Minimum of 2 yaku to go out after 5 dealer wins)
Tempai Renchan (If dealer is tenpai he/she remains dealer)
Tochuryukyoku (Abortive draws)
Uradora (Hidden dora)

Not Allowed (Nashi)
Barenchan (Dealer gets Yakuman after 8 wins)
Double Yakuman (Allowed to get more than 1 Yakuman)
Kuitan (Open Simples/Tanyao)
Yakitori (Player who doesn't win is penalized)

I don't think I like the concept of Double Yakuman, as a single Yakuman could very well end the game itself. Double Yakuman would pretty much guarantee the end. But EMA does limit it as follows, "DOUBLE YAKUMAN is only allowed for Big Four Winds, 13-sided wait for 13 Orphans, 9-sided wait for Nine Treasures and single wait for the Four Concealed sets hand." That may not be a bad option. With the exception of double yakuman and open riichi, everything else I like is pretty much EMA, so I am definitely ok with playing by EMA rules but with those 2 changes. So, if my list is amenable to everyone, I propose that is what we do.

Of course, since Auston plays/teaches USPML rules, I have no problem playing by those rules at the meetups he organizes. It's good to remain flexible.
Merle
user 11831024
Ypsilanti, MI
Post #: 6
OK this is my understanding of atozuke (I was/am confused by this rule too):

It's about whether or not a yaku has to be secured before you can call ron. Lets say you are in tenpai, you have a pair of 7's and a pair of Easts, and your only yaku is going to be a pon of Easts. As your hand sits right now you have no yaku. If Atozure is disallowed then you will not be able to call Ron if someone discards an east.

I'm still fuzzy on the details though.

Lets say you are going for "all sets contain terminals and honors" as your only yaku and you are in tenpai. I'm pretty sure if you have a 23 in your hand and are waiting for the 1 to go out it would be considered an atozure (since as it sits now that last set does not contain a terminal so you don't have that yaku yet). But are you clear to call a ron if you have a 12 and are waiting for a 3 since that last set already has it's terminal or is that still considered a atozure since the yaku isn't completed until the ron is called?

Or say you are going for an all pons hand as your only yaku. Would you have to have all the pons set and be waiting on the pair or could you have something like 2255 and still call ron (techincally you don't have 4 pons yet but you are guaranteed to get one with either of your waits)?

I suppose it doesn't really matter since we plan to allow atozure (have you ever run across a rule set where it's banned? It seems like it's pretty standard to allow this).
Powered by mvnForum

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy