FreeThinkers of Fort Worth Message Board The Door › At What Point Love?

At What Point Love?

A former member
Post #: 45
I'm frustrated, but you know that.

Around and around we go as human beings, "Is there a God, Is there no God?" And over and over again we are told by the pundits and musicians we respect that God is Love.

So.........................

Can you truly be an atheist and love?
Or can you love without God?
Or is love not God at all?
Or is God imaginary and Love real?
Or is there a point to you being here now and reading this, wanting to answer the question but unsure of how others will respond so you don't, then wonder what you're so scared of?
Or is Art Deco the Answer?

Because I love Art Deco.

Victor has this great Art Deco lamp that I would love to know the history of. But he probably won't tell me.
Kit R.
user 13900665
Fort Worth, TX
Post #: 1

Do we really respect the pundits and musicians? Or if we do, is it really their theories that we respect, or the artful presentation of their theories?

Furthermore, cats are animals. But even if cats went extinct, we could still have other animals. So even if someone accepts that God is Love, that does not have to mean that God is Love exclusively.

But you may not want to listen to me, because I hate Art Deco. I much prefer American Craftsman style.
A former member
Post #: 46
I don't know, a lot of people respect John Lennon. But then again, a lot of people don't. I've been reading a lot of Hindu/Kundalini things and the stress is on love. If you're not loving, you're doing it wrong. Life only matters with love. Love first and everything else will fall into place. That last one I'm pretty sure is false, but only because it doesn't seem to matter what I do, my life goes nowhere and is to say the least, unfulfilling.

So I'm asking if there is really a connection or is it all bogus the way it seems to be?

I'm not sure I follow the cat analogy.

Scott
user 9236130
Fort Worth, TX
Post #: 6
If "God is love" were all there was to theism and theistic religions, then the world would be a much better place.

I think the path out of an unfulfilling life lies somewhere other than the superficial slogans and catch phrases adopted and perpetuated by our cultural icons.

Personally, I don't think the path to fulfillment is a cookie cutter process. It's just that those who have status and money in our culture get to expound on their philosophies about love or happiness or fulfillment.

I think love is an answer. If a person has compassion and can show love through their words and deeds while maintaining good personal boundaries, then their life is going to be fulfilling, or at least on the way to fulfilling.

If you're not feeling fulfilled, that doesn't mean you don't have love. It just means that there is more to life than what the musicians and yogis say. Or maybe it takes more time to put what they say into practice.

I'm sorry you don't feel fulfilled. I struggle with fulfillment issues too. Maybe you'll find your way there soon and clue the rest of us in on it! ;)
A former member
Post #: 47
Let me explain, I don't think that catch phrases are the fundation of happiness, I was using that as an example of how it's put on us constantly in music, religion, advertisements etc that if we love, life will be perfect. I imagine that the millions of other Americans who are out of work and can't get their lives moving in the direction they want or need, might be a little sick of hearing it that love is the answer too.

For over four decades (I grew up kind of a hippie kid) I've been told that love is more valuable than money, that if you release your problems out into the Universe that all will right itself, that you have to accept and be grateful for what you have (with very little recognition on the person's part who is lecturing me concerning the realities that make me not so grateful) then you will get your miracles. The New Age/Spiritual, Religion and Self-Help sections of bookstores have weighty shelves full of these ideas repeated yet not much has changed since these books came into fashion in the 60's and 70's.

And then there are the people who refuse to believe in any of it, who have all the same ups and downs.

Is it just romantic to believe there might be some truth to the love theory?

(I'm not taking a side for myself, I'm just wondering. Also when I say "not fulfilled" I'm not talking about sexually, I mean personally. As in not feeling valued by pretty much anyone for any reason. I think the way things are there are a lot of other people in the same situation, reaching for any idea that gives them comfort, but not seeing the positive changes they are being promised.)
A former member
Post #: 1
I have found that if I truly like me, am comfortable in my own skin, cherish the core values that define who I am..then I have fulfillment whether I'm alone, with one other person, or in a group. I've learned to accept people for who they are and not make it my mission or a goal in my life to try to convert them to my way of thinking. I also quit making it almost a religion in and of itself in trying to convince people God did not exist. I came to this realization about 20 years ago over a very simple incident.
A friend was very interested in a particular composer. When I saw the album cover (I did say many years ago..I'm 20+ years older) I mentioned that I preferred Russian composers. He began to argue that this particular composer was absolutely not Russian...he considered himself to be somewhat of an expert. My epiphany came when I realized he was not going to change his mind because he "knew" he was correct. In the past I would have continued to try to change his mind because I "knew" he was wrong. Instead I merely said, "Okay," and walked away. The next day he came to apologize and told me I was, indeed, correct. I told him I knew that but there was not going to be any convincing him otherwise. The look on his face was "priceless." Not only did this incident "enlighten" him it also gave me a since of peace knowing I didn't have to continue the argument to feel fulfilled or vindicated.
So, in closing, may I suggest that you look more inward and define who you are, what makes you you. Embrace you, and, yes, like/love, however you wish to define it, who you are. I think fulfillment and peace of mind will be yours for the taking.
A former member
Post #: 48
Ok, thank you, but I didn't mean for this to be about me. :) I only used my situation as an example. I'm wondering much more about the rest of the world, about the suffering in other places, maybe not necessarily the United States. Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Christians et al teach that God, or the highest power, is love (I'm deliberately leaving out the dichotemous God the punisher idea) and that proper faith brings prosperity. And yet, no. Horrible things continue to happen to the faithful in spite of their best efforts to believe.

The same things happen to non-believers too.

A person can love the kittens out of him or herself and still not find contentment.

Are we looking in the wrong direction with the love thing? 'Cos it doesn't seem to bring as much happiness as we like to pretend it does.

A former member
Post #: 17
The question that occurs to me is: What do you mean by "love"? It's actually close to the question I respond with when people ask about God, too.

If the definition of love is romantic partnership, I don't think love will suffice to create a completely meaningful and satisfying life. One big reason is that seeking after romantic love is largely a selfish endeavor that fails to provide perspective regarding one's place in the universe. Plus, romantic partnership is rarely the stuff of fairy tales. You can't ultimately rely on another person for happiness. Well, you can, but you're going to be disappointed.

If the definition of love is something a little broader, though, the idea that love is more valuable than money may have merit. Can love mean striving to see the good in humanity, letting go of resentments, and looking at the people we encounter as worthy of our respect for their humanity, even if their beliefs or actions are deplorable? Can love mean that we see someone worthy of honor and respect when we look in the mirror? And can choosing to love actually be about being bold in our willingness to be connected with other people? Ourselves? The world in general?

If so, then love and happiness are choices we make, not things that just happen to us if we're lucky. And John Lennon may have been on to something (even if he was just poetically repeating other people's ideas).
A former member
Post #: 49
Randyyyyy! I've missed you! I'm sorry about December but I was feeling very insecure about the rain. (Let everyone figure that riddle out. :) )

I'm speaking of the latter kind of love, the one the "Enlightened" speak of, loving regardless of action, loving in abstinence, loving without expectation of return...though the result of such love is purported to be exactly that in the referenced books I referenced in my earlier reference. Expectation of return.

Romantic love? Meh, who needs it? Just gets in the way of communication and leaves everyone eventually dissatisfied, even if only via of death.


Speaking of Camus (not),
“You will never be happy if you continue to search for what happiness consists of. You will never live if you are looking for the meaning of life.”


I'm not sure this is true. Personally, I'm happiest when I'm challenging life, asking questions, getting answers from a lot of different sources. Even a wall gives an answer, it's usually, "No."
A former member
Post #: 50
Oh, and when I asked if it's only romantic to believe in love, I didn't mean as in romantic love, just to clarify. I meant "marked by the imaginative or emotional appeal of what is heroic, adventurous, remote, mysterious, or idealized" combined with "having no basis in fact" http://www.merriam-we...­

The word has a lot of different meaning, no wonder we're always confused around romance :)
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