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GlobalNet21: Recreating Our Futures Message Board General Discussion › Tea Party movment - a bunch of nuts.

Tea Party movment - a bunch of nuts.

A former member
Post #: 197
In America there is a new force called the Tea Party movment- a bunch of nuts. They believe that in trying to introduced affordable health care America is turning into some kind of police state.
A former member
Post #: 11
Good Observation, there are many people in America whom are very disgruntled with American government, therefore, I believe there is paranoia about more government intervention so they misguide there anger at government to not help the people who can't afford adequate health insurance.
A former member
Post #: 5
In fact, the real issue is that emerging government interventions are likely to have a perceived negative effect on those whose lives are about greed and power...mainly major corporations and bankers...especially defense contractors, oil companies, healthcare organizations, pharmaceutical firms and that ilk...challenging the peculiarly American notion of robbing from the poor and giving to the rich...i'm not for government intervention, we do need to reshape the rules of this particular game...
A former member
Post #: 7
In fact, the real issue is that emerging government interventions are likely to have a perceived negative effect on those whose lives are about greed and power...mainly major corporations and bankers...especially defense contractors, oil companies, healthcare organizations, pharmaceutical firms and that ilk

I'm not sure that's true. Government power is all about the use of force. The force may be applied well or poorly and for good purposes or ill ones. The results of any concentration of power depends on the nature and extent of the power and on who wields it.

Organisations that are regulated (defense contractors, oil companies, healthcare organisations et al) have a direct interest in the regulator. These organisations will actively seek to place sympathetic people into the regulator. Ordinary people are not so actively interested in the activities of the regulator. They will not be as active in monitoring or directing the regulator. This leads to the problem of 'Regulatory Capture', where the regulator acts largely as an agent of the industry that it is supposed to control.

Many of the people in America who object to the plans for compulsory Federally controlled health care object because they are wary of the problem of Regulatory Capture (and other issues). Not because they are baby-eating monsters who love the sound of human suffering in the morning.
A former member
Post #: 12
This looks like it's endeavoring into a very healthy, informative discussion. As an American, born and raised in California, I learn from opinions/information outside of America/United States. This is the first time I have been privy to "Regulatory Capture." Thank you for educating me.

This may sound odd but I wish in America we could have both options in Healthcare in America. I would like a Private Industry of healthcare for those who can afford it and have been affording it. But, also the option to use "Government Subsidized Healthcare" for those wanting that. Who knows maybe even "Rich" people would choose it but I'd like both options. I like both options because myself in the last twenty years I have noticed a tremendous improvement in healthcare hospitals, ie, laser surgery for heart bypass, artery surgery, and C-section for childbirth. My surgery with C-section for birth of my child and I also had another laser suregery to remove something, and I healed extremely well. In my observation there may NOT have been these advances and improvements in medical technology if healthcare was not private, obviously subjective opinion here but those are my thoughts. I know other men who have benefited from improved heart bypass surgery or prostate surgery, etc.

Also, the country which I reside (America) wow, does it ever put such a tremendous amount of money into military spending rather then offering money to the people of America for there healthcare. As an American citizen I would like to see America take care of it's homeless and poor people who don't have healthcare FIRST, and then if there is enough of a surplus of money to help the Middle East with there "Religious War" (that's gone on for over 2,000 years) then offer Military Assistance. But American government is not doing that. And, because of this the rest of the world does suffer because of the recession in America many European countries who depend on trade/exchange/business in the American market have suffered by Americans not having money (or not as much money as they had before the recession) to participate in the global market.
A former member
Post #: 207
In fact, the real issue is that emerging government interventions are likely to have a perceived negative effect on those whose lives are about greed and power...mainly major corporations and bankers...especially defense contractors, oil companies, healthcare organizations, pharmaceutical firms and that ilk...challenging the peculiarly American notion of robbing from the poor and giving to the rich...i'm not for government intervention, we do need to reshape the rules of this particular game...

I don't quite understand why you are against gov intervention when you say that it will have a negative effect on greed an power?

I think the USA needs gove intervention as does the UK. We should be more like Norway.
A former member
Post #: 208
In fact, the real issue is that emerging government interventions are likely to have a perceived negative effect on those whose lives are about greed and power...mainly major corporations and bankers...especially defense contractors, oil companies, healthcare organizations, pharmaceutical firms and that ilk

I'm not sure that's true. Government power is all about the use of force. The force may be applied well or poorly and for good purposes or ill ones. The results of any concentration of power depends on the nature and extent of the power and on who wields it.

Organisations that are regulated (defense contractors, oil companies, healthcare organisations et al) have a direct interest in the regulator. These organisations will actively seek to place sympathetic people into the regulator. Ordinary people are not so actively interested in the activities of the regulator. They will not be as active in monitoring or directing the regulator. This leads to the problem of 'Regulatory Capture', where the regulator acts largely as an agent of the industry that it is supposed to control.

Many of the people in America who object to the plans for compulsory Federally controlled health care object because they are wary of the problem of Regulatory Capture (and other issues). Not because they are baby-eating monsters who love the sound of human suffering in the morning.

They objecy because they have been brainwashed into right wing nonsense. I don't think many people who at the moment are dying because they cannot afford health care wil object.
A former member
Post #: 10
Hello John,

If you're not too busy, I'd like to bring this article by Vijay Boyapati to your attention. It argues against state directed health care far more eloquently than I can.
A former member
Post #: 211
Hello John,

If you're not too busy, I'd like to bring this article by Vijay Boyapati to your attention. It argues against state directed health care far more eloquently than I can.

The article is nonsense. In Amercia at the moment there are people who are dying because they can't afford medical treatment therfore the state needs to provide them with such care.
All this talk of liberty is just right wing tosh.
A former member
Post #: 212
This looks like it's endeavoring into a very healthy, informative discussion. As an American, born and raised in California, I learn from opinions/information outside of America/United States. This is the first time I have been privy to "Regulatory Capture." Thank you for educating me.

This may sound odd but I wish in America we could have both options in Healthcare in America. I would like a Private Industry of healthcare for those who can afford it and have been affording it. But, also the option to use "Government Subsidized Healthcare" for those wanting that. Who knows maybe even "Rich" people would choose it but I'd like both options. I like both options because myself in the last twenty years I have noticed a tremendous improvement in healthcare hospitals, ie, laser surgery for heart bypass, artery surgery, and C-section for childbirth. My surgery with C-section for birth of my child and I also had another laser suregery to remove something, and I healed extremely well. In my observation there may NOT have been these advances and improvements in medical technology if healthcare was not private, obviously subjective opinion here but those are my thoughts. I know other men who have benefited from improved heart bypass surgery or prostate surgery, etc.

Also, the country which I reside (America) wow, does it ever put such a tremendous amount of money into military spending rather then offering money to the people of America for there healthcare. As an American citizen I would like to see America take care of it's homeless and poor people who don't have healthcare FIRST, and then if there is enough of a surplus of money to help the Middle East with there "Religious War" (that's gone on for over 2,000 years) then offer Military Assistance. But American government is not doing that. And, because of this the rest of the world does suffer because of the recession in America many European countries who depend on trade/exchange/business in the American market have suffered by Americans not having money (or not as much money as they had before the recession) to participate in the global market.

I think everybody should contribute to the new health care plan based on the ability to pay as happens in the UK etc.
The improvements you mention, ie heart bypass surgery, what about people who can't afford those techniques?
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