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Re: [atheists-36] Video: 'Health Care That Can Never Be Taken Away'

From: John C.
Sent on: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:00 PM
<<Face it---if you can work you will WORK---no one really really wants  
to get something for nothing>>
Bullshit. Talk to my first wife, who worked Vista in West Virginia. She'd go up some dark hollow and talk to a great big teenage boy: "What do you want to do when you grow up?" "I guess I'll go on the welfare like my paw."

She said this was a regular experience, and having grown up in West Virginia myself, I believe it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellen Morgan" <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Monday, April 28,[masked]:12:10 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Video: 'Health Care That Can Never Be Taken Away'

Face it---if you can work you will WORK---no one really really wants  
to get something for nothing---some people described as "lazy" were  
brought up in an unhealthy home & are mentally not able or easily  
able to make good decisions--they doubt their worth & can not  
function as efficiently as someone else--who maybe had  a healthy  
upbringing & was a loved child---maybe we could invest our time in  
helping less fortunate people to raise healthy kids----volunteer your  
time to inspire a child---& maybe that is a way to make a difference  
in the number of "lazy" people getting benefit from handouts.  Even  
if this logic is WRONG--the goal is GREAT & worth living!!  The  
assumption that people who claim to and who need help are lazy & made  
bad decisions so they should suffer the ramifications of their  
choices is such a stingy, selfish & blind point of view----

We've all heard stories of people taking advantage of "the system"---- 
we need to police the system & inspire people to make better  
choices---& invest in research about what makes one person more  
productive than another----at some level it's just a choice--at some  
level the choice is not so obvious & clear & easy.

Of course the insurance circles would promote this propaganda----they  
are the ones that will loose if we have a universal health care  
system----they might be the only ones who will get hurt---
Ellen Morgan

On Apr 28, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Harry Pearson wrote:

> Not even our government, running into endless debt for the Iraq  
> War, can provide "something for nothing". A single payer Universal  
> Health care will be paid for with TAXES!!  Sounds horrible but add  
> up how much you are paying for insurance - I have Medicare which is  
> deducted from my SSA & a Secondary insurance which is a rollover  
> from my empoyer when I retired which is $120 per month & I get  
> absolutely nothing for it except a discount on prescription drugs.  
> I have a relative who is between jobs & has to pay $464 per month  
> for something called COBRA. Check out the Canadian, English &  
> French systems (summarized in "Sicko") & the health care is better  
> (Why in Hell do we buy drugs from Canada??) cheaper & run much better.
> Yeah, the ones who work pay the most. But look - the roads get  
> built & someone who pays no taxes (for whatever reason) gets to  
> drive their car on them for free.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin"  
> <[address removed]>
> To: <[address removed]>
> Sent: Monday, April 28,[masked]:18 AM
> Subject: RE: [atheists-36] Video: 'Health Care That Can Never Be  
> Taken Away'
>
>
>> That is certainly always a big problem when you
>> provide something for nothing.  Universal health care
>> would "supposedly" be payed for by everyone, but it
>> would end up being payed for only by those who worked.
>> And a lot of those who currently work to maintain
>> their health care would stop working if they knew that
>> they were just going to get it for free, regardless of
>> whether they worked or not.  This is the beginning of
>> what is called "the death spiral" in insurance
>> circles:
>>
>> 1.  Some people stop working because they'll get
>> coverage whether they work for it or not.
>>
>> 2.  Remaining people have to work more to pay for
>> themselves and those not working.
>>
>> 3.  Some of these people decide that it's not worth
>> all the extra work, so they stop working too.
>>
>> 4.  Remainder of working people have to work even
>> harder.
>>
>> 5.  More people drop out.
>>
>> 6.  Eventually, whole system falls apart, and nobody
>> has any coverage at all.
>>
>> Let everyone experience the fruit of their own labor,
>> and let these people give some of their own
>> hard-earned wealth to charities for those who cannot
>> work, if they want to do so.  Stealing from the rich
>> (or moderately well-off) to give to the poor (or lazy)
>> is still stealing.  Even if the rich have money to
>> burn, that doesn't give you the right to steal it from
>> them.
>>
>> And just to clarify, I'm nowhere even NEAR being rich
>> personally; I just agree with John that there is still
>> right and wrong.  But if you disagree with me about
>> that, then why do you care about the people who are
>> dying from lack of health coverage; just let 'em die
>> and shout "Survival of the fittest!"  Take your pick.
>>
>> - Robin
>>
>>
>> --- TainaAtheist <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> --------------------­-------------
>>
>> I wonder if ourrepresentatives don?t provide universal
>> health care coverage in part because ofthe potential
>> for the ?lottery? affect. The ?lottery? affect occurs
>> when someone quits their job without noticeas a result
>> of a significant win or benefit improvement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Darhlene
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:
>> [address removed][mailto:athe­ists-36- 
>> [address removed]]
>> On Behalf Of Orlando Jack
>> Sent: Friday, April 25,[masked]:18 AM
>> To: [address removed]
>> Subject: [atheists-36] Video: 'Health Care That Can
>> Never Be Taken Away'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I realize this doesn't fit in our Freethought site,
>> but Icouldn't help myself after I saw this short video
>> clip. Here's a grassrootsmovement that may inspire
>> many of our members 'to take action' who are tied
>> totheir jobs mostly because of their 'health' care
>> benefits.
>>
>> ENJOY!
>>
>> http://www.standt...­
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to  
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> This message was sent by Harry Pearson  ([address removed]) from  
> Orlando Atheists &  Freethinkers.
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> http://atheists.m...­
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