It's probably true that a government the size of the one we have can only be financed by forced taxation. But one suggestion, supposing the size of the government could be massively reduced, was to make it law that contracts were only enforceable in court if you had registered the contract and paid a fee. You would be free to enter into a contract without paying a fee, but you're on your own in case of abrogation. This would provide a considerable income to the government, and would be entirely voluntary.
For another idea, try this link: http://rous.redba...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin" <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29,[masked]:03:42 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Video: 'Health Care That Can Never Be Taken Away'
I don't believe that all taxes are theft. I believe
specifically that income taxes and land taxes are
theft. Income taxes are a fundamentally communist
idea which says that you have no right to the fruit of
your labor; it belongs to the government, just as you
yourself seem to. (You're just working for them,
after all, if they get paid for your labor. Isn't
that the same as slavery?) Income taxes didn't exist
in the USA until fairly recently. Land taxes say that
the land all really belongs to the government; we're
just paying rent, and they'll take it from us if we
stop paying. These are the two with which I disagree
As far as other ways, it has been shown that an
efficiently run government can subsist on (reasonable)
import/export taxes. I know you'll say, "Who's ever
heard of an efficiently run government?" And I agree.
So add a few (also reasonable) sales taxes.
Anyway, I know that this is way off the original
topic, but you're right in saying that a lot of the
argument comes back to definitions.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying we're slaves to the
government (though if you want to argue that we are,
I'll debate that another time). I'm not a radical who
wants to overthrow the government (even though I think
that this one really needs a good overhaul).
--- Tamara <[address removed]> wrote:
> Really? Really?! You're sticking with the argument
> that taxation is theft.
> Well that certainly is an extreme perspective.
> Honestly, such an extreme perspective brings those
> alarming anti-government
> militias to mind.
> At this point, it sounds like your problem with
> Universal Health Care is
> really a problem with taxation in general.
> We all reap benefits from living in a structured
> society. We pay for those
> benefits with tax dollars. I won't claim that
> everything the government pays
> for is something I want (the Iraq War comes to
> mind), but this is the
> downside to living in such a large society. Not
> everyone is going to be
> happy all the time with everything they do. In the
> meantime we do get things
> I'd rather not go without, like schools, roads, fire
> departments, etc etc.
> I'm interested to hear these other ideas to finance
> a government. I'm sure
> other ideas exist. But are they *good* ideas? That's
> the question.
> On 4/28/08 11:09 PM, "John Conolley"
> <[address removed]> wrote:
> > I don't see how you can deny that taxation is
> theft. Your hard earned money is
> > taken away from you by people you don't know at
> the point of a gun. That's
> > theft. (Don't believe the point of a gun thing?
> Try not paying your taxes. One
> > farmer in Pennsylvania had sixteen men armed with
> M-16's enter his home and
> > seize everything, including the tools of his
> trade, to pay back taxes.) And
> > just because taxation is the only way you've ever
> heard of to finance a
> > government doesn't mean it's the only way. There
> are other ideas out there.
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