RE: [atheists-36] A Universe from Nothing: Einstein, the Belgian Priest and the Puzzle of the Big Bang

From: Geoff W.
Sent on: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:37 PM

For those with interest in some of the current research that is relevant to this discussion, the link to the Alternative Cosmology news is here: http://www.cosmology.info/newsletter/

 

Once you find an article summary, please go to the actual research and read it. The devil is in the details when understanding this kind of research. Please don’t just read their position paper and react to that. Unfortunately, reading the research is not enough. Too many of these folks on all sides are skilled wordsmiths and avoid leaving openings to weaknesses in their published findings.

 

Case in point being the argument about the CMB and associated temperature of space. The temp of the cosmic blackbody radiation has been measured at: The CMBR has a thermal black body spectrum at a temperature of 2.725 K,[3] which peaks at the microwave range frequency of 160.2 GHz, corresponding to a 1.873 mm wavelength. (wikipedia ref).

 

This same temp, about 2.46 kelvin was calculated by Sir Arthur Eddington back in the late 1800’s as the temp from radiation of space dust particles warmed by starlight. His estimate is much more accurate than the 5-50 estimates derived by the big bang theory.  The cmb temperature is consistent with the BB but does not exclusively support it. Every piece of matter emits radiation. In space, radiation of all forms is redirected by the electromagnetic fields that flow through plasma currents. These run towards the millions of ampere’s. The currents twist the direction of particles and radiation falling on them. Space appears to be riddles with these filaments which produce the “microwave fog” that is called the CMB.

 

There are some interesting articles in thecurrent ACG newsletter, I hope they inform this discussion.

 

I think that a fundamental questions for our brights / atheists group is that the Big Bang is a creationist theory at its heart. The religious believers cite it as a physical real event that corresponds to their mythical creation of the universe. People whose religion is based on a particular interpretation of a possible event can be expected to defend that point of view as vigorously as possible.

 

Geoff

 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Geoff Willcher
Sent: Thursday, February 16,[masked]:09 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] A Universe from Nothing: Einstein, the Belgian Priest and the Puzzle of the Big Bang

 

Science is not about a majority vote. It is about the quality of converging evidence on specific conclusions. Plasma cosmology better fits the evidence than the BB.

 

The BB even with something like 8 to 17 adjustable parameters cannot come up with the correct values for the ratios of the light elements. That’s kind of critical.

 

The “age” of the universe is very suspect. There are structures that are too far apart from their origin to have gotten to where they are in the time available since the “universe began” under the influence of gravity alone.

 

The concept of the expanding universe was founded on a need to fill in the gaps in the BB theory. Its not based on any evidence. It says that the universe expanded faster than the speed of light due to the operation of unstated laws that operated then and not now. Not good science to postulate a set of special conditions merely to prop up a theory.

 

I agree that we are seriously lacking an understanding of gravity. Big missing part. Another missing part is attributing cosmic structure only to gravity’s influence. There is abundant evidence of large current flows through plasma filaments in space that influences its structure. The assumption that the universe is smooth is not supported by the visible evidence. The distribution of stars has a filamentary appearance.

 

We are also lacking an understanding of the universe at the smallest scales, planck levels. Not understood, with big implications.

 

Did you read his technical article? If you are just reacting to the ideas, please go look at the article, then go look at the evidence. There is massive prejudice by the mainstream astronomy community. This is not unusual in scientific disciplines. Plasma cosmology better fits the evidence than the BB does. Look at the videos by geoffrey and margaret burgidge. Margaret was president of the astronomical union, not an unknowledgeable person. This is a very divisive issue, but the big bang doesn’t have a leg left to stand on when facing the evidence.  The article in wikipedia was rewritten by people in the mainstream, anti plasma community. Check out the history of contention on this article. What a mess.

 

best regards

 

geoff

 

From: Luther Wang

Sent: Thursday, February 16,[masked]:16 AM

To: [address removed]

Subject: RE: [atheists-36] A Universe from Nothing: Einstein, the Belgian Priest and the Puzzle of the Big Bang

 

I don't Geoff, there's lots of evidence in favor of big bang as well.  The majority of the physics community disagree with Lerner.  You can't explain away well established scientific evidence like the laws of thermodynamics, CMB skymap, general relativity...  Bottom line is we don't know if Big Bang is the correct theory either way, but to outright say it's wrong doesn't work either because his (Lerner) explanation doesn't fit a lot of the evidence that we have.  People need to be careful of narrow focusing the types of data they use.  Many times someone, even a scientist, will use whatever evidence that favors his theory and discard other evidence that are equally important but not in favor of his theory or can't be explained away.  I recommend caution in blindly picking out someone's theory because it seems to make more sense to you or that you want it the universe to be that way.  Truth is until we have a unified theory of quantum gravity, we will not have a ghost of a chance to come up with anything even remotely correct as to how the universe began.
As far as the physics community is concerned, Big Bang is currently the best theory that we have. (or in my opinion, a best guess:))
 
 
Luther
 


From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] A Universe from Nothing: Einstein, the Belgian Priest and the Puzzle of the Big Bang
Date: Thu, 16 Feb[masked]:07:45 -0500

Robert

 

Eric Lerner, an astrophysicist and plasma physicist, has a large volume of material on this topic. Please visit his site: http://bigbangneverhappened.org/

 

please see his business site: lawrenceville plasma physics where he is building a dense plasma fusion device that is progressing nicely on the path to commercial productivity. the link is on the site above at the bottom of the menu.

 

The filamentary structure of the universe can be explained by the flow of immense currents through plasma filaments. These have been observed. Galaxy clusters, galaxies and stars may be the result of plasma filaments choking off.

 

Please see other research by:

Halton Arp

Geoffrey and Margaret Burbidge

Jayant Narlikar

Alternative Cosmology Group newsletters which present links to professional research

Tift (quantum redshift) sorry, can?t remember the first name

Anthony Peratt -- There is a guy who works at los alamos who runs a research program and web site with much evidence; can?t remember the name ? found it  http://plasmaresources.com/

 

.

there is a large literature on redshift anomalies. The intrinsic redshift is thought to relate to the age of the matter. Matter is believed to be created in active galactic nuclei. Ejected galaxies show systematic redshift changes with age or distance from the point of creation.  The step function of redshift kills the redshift as recession velocity. What seems to be happening is that galaxies are floating relatively still, but move some due to gravity and other attraction. The variations of redshift are largely due to the intrinsic component.  There are over a thousand examples of discrepant redhifts where two or more objects are at the same distance but have very different redshifts. Many of these are actively suppressed by mainstream astronomers. Halton Arp?s books bring out this very real practice among professional scientists. The same behaviors is noted to be practices in many other science disciplines. Cancer research, geology, etc.

 

There is far more material in this area than I can go into. See eric?s technical article on his site, now dated, but still valuable.

 

There is no good evidence for dark matter now that sufficient baryonic (normal) matter has been found to account for the rotational characteristics of galaxies. This matter is in the form of giant molecular clouds, low intensity stars, failed stars, etc. The remaining lack of explanatory forces is less than can be explained by any of the dark matter theories. No dark matter. No dark energy

 

Geoff

 

From: Robert Elessar

Sent: Wednesday, February 15,[masked]:27 PM

To: [address removed]

Subject: Re: [atheists-36] A Universe from Nothing: Einstein, the Belgian Priest and the Puzzle of the Big Bang

 

Geoff,

 

I think you need to explain a little more about what you mean by the intrinsic component and longitudinal component of the redshift.  I know all of those terms but not how they go together.  Also, in what way is the electromagnetic force in plasma supposed to be shaping the universe?  There's lots of plasma within stars, but interstellar plasma is surely a very, very thin presence at best...if it weren't we wouldn't be able to see ANYWHERE, since plasma is opaque to electromagnetic waves.  I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't quite understand what you mean right now, and would like to.

 

Robert Elessar

 


From: Geoff Willcher <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15,[masked]:08 PM
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] A Universe from Nothing: Einstein, the Belgian Priest and the Puzzle of the Big Bang

 

I?d like to invite readers to read the book and web site by Eric Lerner ? the big bang never happened.  The redshift as linear recession velocity only is very suspect. There appear to be intrinsic and longitudinal redshift components. The intrinsic component occurs in step functions that are impossible if redshift is only recession velocity. The universe of krauss and others ignores electromagnetism in plasma as an interstellar force shaping the universe. There is a huge literature of research validated alternative cosmologies. Please check the Alternative Cosmology Group for science that confirms alternative explanations. The big bang is just another creationist theory and has been seized on by many of the religious.

 

Geoff

 

From: Annelies Joss

Sent: Wednesday, February 15,[masked]:57 PM

To: [address removed]

Subject: Re: [atheists-36] A Universe from Nothing: Einstein, the Belgian Priest and the Puzzle of the Big Bang

 

Hey Tommy, pretty interesting stuff here! You may have heard this before, but I hadn't. I'm forwarding it to you, in case you have not heard about this.

xoxo

aj

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Jack Maurice <[address removed]> wrote:

 

Article:





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