Re: [atheists-36] UU's

From: Keisar B.
Sent on: Friday, August 1, 2008 5:15 PM
justin, you don't understand uuism at ALL. they're not a church, certainly not as you understand it. there's more variety of belief there than throughout all of chistendom (in fact more-so that throughout all of religion), they have more truth and reason than the average person/group/church by far, and they're special for much the same reason we are. in fact there's much overlap between us and them as you can see.

2008/8/1 Justin B <[address removed]>
���
So, what you're saying is they don't stand behind what they believe, and they just go with the flow? Isn't it better to support an Atheist group solidified in truth and reason, rather than a church that doesn't know what going on? Apparently, if they think they know what's going on, they don't preach it? I think it's great that they get involved with civil rights, etc, but regular old Baptist churches do the same thing, what's so special about the UU's? It's just another church, allowing people to accept a lie, and live their life with blinders on.
----- Original Message -----
From: Advocate
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, August 01,[masked]:58 PM
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] UU's

unitarian started out meaning one god, no trinity, UU is a very different thing today

2008/8/1 Harry Pearson <[address removed]>
Hold on, I attend a Unitarian/Universalist Church. All it means is they believe in a single God, not a Trinity. The various churches in different parts of the country range from very structured with Ministers to "Fellowships" which have invited guest speakers each week. UU has been very active in civil rights, school desegregation & other liberal activities. The membership ranges from very strict believers to outright atheists like me. Funding is by donation & we never promote the religion. By & large, people change to UU because they are not satisfied with the strict conformance of the Catholic Church & Jewish Faith & the Social Clubs that the Protestants have become.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin" <[address removed]>

To: <[address removed]>
Sent: Friday, August 01,[masked]:40 PM

Subject: Re: [atheists-36] UU's


I'm not "sounding off" against them any more than I would against any other religion.  It's just that I do consider them to be a religion. Maybe they're one that holds their congregates very loosely; it sounds like they do.  From your description and from Advocate's, it sounds like they are trying to be just a social club.  That's great.  I still don't understand why, in that case, they choose to call themselves a church. Given their system of doctrine (which Advocate kindly supplied), they do sound like a religion, albeit a very mild one.  If people want to be a part of that, then that's fine with me.  What offended me in the beginning was that the first e-mail about them felt very much like an attempt to proselytize.

I am curious now, and please don't take this as an attack.  How do they fund themselves?  Do they collect "tithes"?  And do they proselytize?  Do they "preach" their system of beliefs, or is it just there for whoever wants to read it?

Robin


--- On Fri, 8/1/08, Hector <[address removed]> wrote:

From: Hector <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] UU's
To: [address removed]
Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 11:38 AM
Wow. I feel a little bit of harshness from the atheists
towards the UU.
I am an atheist, and I am also a UU. It happened virtually
by accident.
A friend from another atheist meetup group I attend asked
me to go
with him to what he thought was a Wednesday night service
at a local
UU church. He apparently had encountered someone after a
Sunday
service who had dissed him a bit for being an atheist, and
he wanted
to sound off against them. Turns out it wasn't a
service, but a SHAAG
meeting. SHAAG stands for Secular Humanists Agnostics and
Atheists
Group. It is a group that picks a subject every other week
to discuss
in depth. I left there buzzing with excitement! These
people were
intelligent, articulate, and a lot of them made me almost
feel dumb
with their sheer knowledge of various subjects. What other
church or
congregation holds atheist meetings, Wiccan rituals,
Buddhist
meditation sessions, green groups, etc.?   I can't
think of one.
After that night, I decided to give their Sunday services a
shot. That
was back in December of last year, and I have attended
regularly
since. I have met many wonderful people that have never for
one second
judged me for being an atheist. (As a side note, I also met
my now
girlfriend - a Pagan).
In short, my point is, that until you experience something
for
yourself, it is better to hold back a bit in your judgment.
There are
instances where you can make a judgment without actually
attending in
person - the Westboro Baptists and their horribly hateful
manifestations come to mind. But, otherwise it is best to
try to give
things a calm shot before sounding off.
Sorry if I sound preachy or something. But I would never
trade the
experiences I have had at my UU church. I feel that I am a
better
person now, and I have gained insights that I would not
have
otherwise.

-Hector

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Advocate
<[address removed]> wrote:
> not to evangelize them or anything but i would be
playing devil's "advocate"
> in any case. they are in large part a social club
aligned along humanist
> principles. it so happens that there is often debate
about, and many
> congregations call themselves just that, a
congregation. Right in that
> instance would be defined by me as stopping harm. Sure
you may find machismo
> in any church but only there was it done peacefully
with full
> conscientiousness and only there is there no leftover
bullshit when the act
> is over. what those particular people believe i
couldn't say, it's different
> for everyone since there is no dogma. their "7
principles" are: (officially)
>
> The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
> Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
> Acceptance of one another and encouragement to
spiritual growth in our
> congregations;
> A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
> The right of conscience and the use of the democratic
process within our
> congregations and in society at large;
> The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and
justice for all;
> Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of
which we are a part.
>
> however, i don't believe all of them, nor to most
of the members i hang
> with. we're still just as welcome.
>
> 2008/8/1 Robin <[address removed]>
>>
>> So what's the point of their existence?  Are
they just a social club?
>>  And, if so, why do they call themselves a church?
 How do they define Right
>> (as you referenced it in your last e-mail)?  How
do they define wrong?
>>
>> Robin
>>
>> --- On Fri, 8/1/08, Advocate
<[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Advocate <[address removed]>
>> > Subject: Re: [atheists-36] UU's
>> > To: [address removed]
>> > Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 9:57 AM
>> > Jesus Christ!... pardon the expression. Ok,
let me clarify.
>> > UU has a great
>> > deal of non-superstitious people, perhaps
nearly as much
>> > Atheist, Agnostic,
>> > Freethinker, Bright, Humanist, Secular
Humanist, etc
>> > membership as you'd
>> > find at an atheist convention, such as the
orlando
>> > freethinker group. there
>> > is no superstition amongst a goodly
percentage of it's
>> > membership and there
>> > is none required for membership or in
it's tenets. the
>> > entire point of my
>> > post is that this Open-Mindedness (free
thought if you
>> > will) leads to people
>> > being utterly logical and reasonable when it
counts most.
>> > if you got
>> > anything other than that you're looking
to fight where
>> > there's no fight to
>> > be had.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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--
"Either a belief stands on reason, or it does not
stand at all." -
George H. Smith



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