RE: "Good without 'God'": Re: [atheists-36] Recovering From Religion? Give Yourself Time

From: Norma Jeane Y.
Sent on: Saturday, June 2, 2012 1:13 AM
I totally agree with you, Annelies.  One of the reasons there's been so much prejudice against atheists/agnostics/non-believers is because Not believing in "God" (whatever brand(s) of it the particular culture has) has been equated with not being "good" -- so thorough & deep has been the brainwashing that "good" = "God."  In fact; to even question this prevailing, presuming & monopolizing "authoritarian" attitude is to also be labeled not "good" -- in fact bad enough to be branded as a heretic, or worse burned at the stake, vis-a-vis, the Inquisition during medieval times. 
 
So--is it any wonder that people have difficulty leaving this centuries-old brainwashing scripted into our very psyches & DNAs, or when they do--have difficulty recovering from it.  There's a book I found years ago (30) when I first came to Winter Park that really hit me "between the eyes" as Truth & further uncovered the insidious conspiracy of organized religion with politics and the roots of it that cause so many other problems, such as poor self-esteem (Doctrine of Original Sin, etc.), alcoholism and co-dependency.  The book is called When God Becomes a Drug, written by a former Catholic priest.
 
--Norma
 
 
From: Annelies Joss <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 1,[masked]:47 PM
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Recovering From Religion? Give Yourself Time

To me being a "good" or "moral" person has nothing to do with religion. I think that my children in many ways behave better, and seem more caring towards all living beings and nature, than many of their religious friends or acquaintances. I'm very hopeful that my children will some day raise their own children free from religious indoctrination.


On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Randy Tod LaMonda <[address removed]> wrote:
Okay, maybe replace isn’t what I meant.  How do we unite atheist, humanists, secularists etc?  I’ve heard many times that getting us to unite is like herding cats!  Religion does seem to do a good job mobilizing people.
 
I would love to see the world governed by rational people who were brought up by rational parents.  The numbers aren’t in our favor however; believing parents are out-breeding us.  I’ve wondered for sometime what this world would be like if people spend 1/7 of their days making the world a better place.  What could 1/10 of the world’s income do to make this a better world?
 
I was one of those children raised by very rational, very educated parents.  I  had children, but didn’t know how to morally instruct them.  I was (and probably still am) a moral relativist, so I turned to religion to help me raise my children.
 
 
 
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Norma Jeane Young
Sent: Friday, June 01,[masked]:12 PM

To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Recovering From Religion? Give Yourself Time
 
Wonderful response, Annelies! 
 
Your personal experience is very powerful & very compelling.  Makes so much sense, too.  Your children are so lucky to have been raised with honestly guided Free Will.  I liked your answer to your children when they were very young that this god is everything "good" they see in the world. . . and then gave your own opinion that you don't believe this god is a person.  Very interesting, also that you let your daughter Hannah make her own choice to live with the Christian family & be exposed to the other world -- & trust her to choose for herself.  Even though very much in love with the Christian man, she employed reason also to recognize the difficulties that would be inherent in trying to have harmony in raising their children (unless he was open-minded to raise them with a diversity of exposure belief (or Non-belief) systems, which apparently he was not willing to do).
 
I envy the fun you all had together as a family on Sundays -- enjoying each other and doing pleasurable things together -- instead of trying to adhere to a dictum as I had that it was "unlawful to do one's own pleasure on the "Lord's Day."  So Sabbath (church day--the SDA's were like "Jewish Protestants" in worshipping on Saturday) for me was no pleasure & Sunday was "back to work" day.  Our family didn't have much fun.  I feel the effects of that yet -- with a deep sense of being fun-deprived & in need of "catch-up" yet.
 
Thanks for sharing your experience.  You add to the growing "body of evidence" that people can indeed be "good without god."  And; as my own personal testimony attests (posted a few hours ago to this site), "God" "gets in the way of" being good -- AND having fun.
 
--Norma
 
From: Annelies Joss <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 1,[masked]:15 PM

Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Recovering From Religion? Give Yourself Time
 
I don't feel the need to replace religion with anything. I've found myself to be much happier without religion in my life. We will not be able to get those firm believers to be non-believers, I think. My husband and I have always been very honest with our children, even when they were very young and asked us who this god is that so many talk about. When they were very young  I used to tell them that everything "good" they see in this world is what some people call "god", and I told them that some people do think this god is a living being who created everything, but that I don't believe that at all. 
Our children, all 3 of them, are very much atheists, and that's their choice. Our 22 year old daughter, who chose to stay in Albuquerque when our family was transferred yet again, stayed with a christian family who home schooled their 6 children. Our Hannah was also home schooled through high school, but we bought a program from a private national high school, and we did make sure she was learning real science, and no religion.
For some time, while living with this family, she did attend the church that family attended, and she was also engaged to a christian young man she was very much in love with. Luckily before they got married, Hannah did realize that she is an atheist, and when they had a discussion about how they would raise their children, she quickly realized that being married to an American christian, would not work for her. 
I don't think our children have ever missed anything being raised in a non-religious family. On the contrary, we had our sundays wide open to do fun family stuff, while so many of their friends were forced to attend church.
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Randy Tod LaMonda <[address removed]> wrote:
I’m fine with replacing fairy tales with heaven on earth, but I don’t see that happening.  What is the number of religious people in this country—95%?  How many people attend church each week (I don’t know, but it’s a lot).  Are we to pull people kicking and screaming to Love of Life?  Reality is the most beautiful idea I know, but many live in fantasy land.  Why aren’t armies of people showing up at our doors demanding to be part of making the world a better, realer place?
 
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Norma Jeane Young
Sent: Friday, June 01,[masked]:48 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Recovering From Religion? Give Yourself Time
 
Try replacing it with fear-guilt-&-shame-free Innocent LIFE and Nature and Love in its deepest, broadest & most idealistic sense.  "Enjoy The Moment" & feel Alive IN it!  "Heaven" can be HERE on EARTH!
 
~Norma
 
 
From: Randy Tod LaMonda <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Friday, June 1,[masked]:34 PM
Subject: RE: [atheists-36] Recovering From Religion? Give Yourself Time
 
I keep wondering what we can replace religion with.  If you take away something rewarding, you have to replace it with something equally rewarding.
 
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Jack Maurice
Sent: Friday, June 01,[masked]:31 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: [atheists-36] Recovering From Religion? Give Yourself Time
 
Dear Members,
Consider reading this article. It's excellent! Also feel free to pass it on to others you may know that are having difficulty moving forward to enlightenment.




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