Re: [atheists-36] Separation of Church and Hospitals

From: Daniel S.
Sent on: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 12:33 AM
     As I see it there are three questions which need to be asked before a medical procedure is performed in any hospital.  They are:
(1) Is it legal according to federal law?  (I think there is sufficient flexibility in the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution to preempt state laws which conflict with federal rights, although abortion restrictions, as interpreted by conservative courts, may not agree with that position.)
(2) Does the patient want the procedure?
(3) Is it medically appropriate?  (No blood-letting to let the demons escape, please.)
     If you're a doctor, nurse or pharmacist with religious/moral objections to certain procedures and medications, you may have chosen the wrong profession.  In some cases there may be alternate arenas for your skills in medicine.  In any case, you do not have the right to deny other individuals their legal rights, whether or not a life threatening situation is involved. 
     The institutional problem of the management of religious hospitals refusing, on behalf of themselves or the church, to perform certain procedures, is, I think, a more difficult question.  One answer might be joint use of at least some facilities by management and staff divided into religious and secular entities.  The secular entity would be responsible for enabling procedures deemed unacceptable by the religious entity but secular staff would be free to work in both environments.  Other solutions might be possible, depending on particular situations.  If an area is sufficiently short of religion based hospital facilities it might be possible to build a new secular hospital.  Legal action would be a last resort.  No one should be required to suffer or die due to the religious convictions of others.  --Dan
    
 
  
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry_R <[address removed]>
To: atheists-36 <[address removed]>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11,[masked]:43 pm
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Separation of Church and Hospitals

In Fall 2010 I came down with acute appendicitis and went to Florida Hospital Kissimmee.  They found a surgeon to come in and operate on me at about 9:00 at night. The appendix had ruptured according to the surgeon.  I think the admission form in the emergency room asked about religious affiliation.  If so, I would have indicated "none".   During my 2-night stay, nobody hassled me with any religion or prayer solicitations, and in my opinion my care was very good, especially from the nurses.  They wanted me to get up and walk, so at some point I was walking with my IV pole with my wife in the hallway, where they had several big paintings of Jesus healing people.  I asked my wife, "If Jesus can do that, why the hell did I need all that surgery?"
Larry Rosen

At 12:05 PM 8/11/2013, Adam Nehr wrote:
My wife broke her arm two years ago in a fall going into a friends house for Thanksgiving dinner. The only hospital close to the accident with staff to treat the fracture during the holiday was Florida hospital. This is a religious institution which made us both uncomfortable since we had bad experiences with this institution both ethically and scientifically in the past; but she was in pain and this was simply a broken bone; is not exactly a medical mystery. Still, surgery was required and the options were limited.

In the waiting room of the surgery suite there was an obscene painting of Jesus leaning over the surgeon guiding his hand. A woman who saw me look at it remarked before seeing the expression on my face "isn't it comforting to know that our lord guides the hand of those who operate on our loved ones?"

I looked at her with a quizzical look and couldn't help but express my distain. I said "with all due respect I am a man of science not of superstition; I do not want a doctor that needs god to be effective; I want one that thinks he IS god and as such, needs no help!"

She was shocked but at that moment, my patience was limited. Perhaps I was abrupt but personally I am fed up with superstition supplanting science.

My wife is also a Pancreatic Cancer survivor of going on 4 years; a medical anomoly. She is cancer free, not because of prayer but due to science, and a lot of it! And due to a surgeons skill, and a lot of that as well. Over 80% of her medical team are atheists and their guide is science.

Had we tried to pray away a pancreatic adneocarcinoma she would now be dead. She lives BECAUSE of atheism and a lifelong trust in science.

The only thing that belongs in a hospital is medical science. The chapels should be removed in my opinion and replaced with laboratory space and a small room for secular counseling for use by compassionate mental health professionals when grief visits a family. Crosses with bleeding Jesuses upon them are not the image we should confront during times of medical stress!  

----
Stay well,

Adam Nehr

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--------- Original Message --------
From: [address removed]
To: "[address removed]" <[address removed]>
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Separation of Church and Hospitals
Date: 08/11/13 09:11

Christopher Hitchens, perhaps the greatest moral compass of atheism,
gave this talk which made clear that WE DO NOT NEED EACH OTHER. If
religion is to end, we do NOT NEED A REPLACEMENT... only to acknowledge
other skeptics in the passing way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0B-X9LJjs

Let us remember Christopher Hitchens, knowing that he is NOT anywhere
else... his consciousness ceased when he died, but his WORDS and QUALITY
of THOUGHT live on.

Let's listen... Let's LEARN. :-)

Nelson
[address removed]



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Separation of Church and Hospitals
From: Jeffrey Young <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Date: 8/11/[masked]:58 AM

> My viewpoint is that as long as the hospital receives any government
> funding, there should be no religious affiliation.
> However, if the hospital is 100% privately funded, then my viewpoint is
> that they are free to do whatever they want - including not performing
> abortions, sprinkling holy water on all patients, etc. The only cavaet
> would be that they would be required to accept any and all patients for
> emergency services without any religious requirements.
> The line is at what point does government interfere with the rights of
> both religious and non-religious groups.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joseph levy <[address removed]>
> To: atheists-36 <[address removed]>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 11,[masked]:00 am
> Subject: [atheists-36] Separation of Church and Hospitals
>
> There is much debate and activity in the issue of the separation of
> church and state but why not the separation of church and hospitals? As
> I type this discussion I am sitting in the labor and delivery ward with
> my wife, in a hospital named after a biblical saint. It occurred to me
> that religious affiliation with medical science seems contradictory. The
> doctors here do not perform faith healing. The doctors do not prescribe
> holy water and there are no religious shrines in the hospital that are
> used for medicinal purposes. Why do we accept this unholy/un-scientific
> union?
>
>
>
>
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