Great posts Dan S. & Adam: I agree wholeheartedly with BOTH of you. Re: [atheists-36] Tea Party & Fiscal Prudence

From: Norma Jeane Y.
Sent on: Saturday, October 19, 2013 7:30 PM
Thank you also, Jeffrey for your thoughtful concern about the national debt.  Rich, Wall St.-like plunderers have been conspiring & implementing the mess we're in through conscience-less "money as their God" activity for years.  We don't fix it by penalizing the poor & middle-class even more--victimizing those already victimized by the Wall  Street Rapists.
 
And, Adam, I particularly liked your last paragraph--the part where you said "you have to grow your way out of this mess you cannot cut your way out!"
 
"Go FORWARD!"  -- not backward to the Dark Ages socially/religiously or to Feudalism where the gap between the rich "nobles"  & the poor "peasants" was even starker than it is now.  We need to insist that our elected representives Represent The People - & stand up for Democratic Principles -- the ones our founding fathers (And Mothers--in spirit & deeds, since they couldn't vote yet--but fought alongside the men FOR our Democracy) forged through the Idealism articulated so eloquently by such great minds as Ralph Waldo Emerson & others.
 
--Norma 

 
From: Adam Nehr <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Saturday, October 19,[masked]:03 AM
Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Tea Party & Fiscal Prudence
The solution is to repair our infrastructure so we can support repatriating manufacturing jobs that will in-turn employ the lower and lower-middle class at something better than minimum wage, no-benefit jobs and then prevent their bankruptcy by ensuring they have proper affordable health care and an investment climate that is free from predatory rapists that gut their 401k after a lifetime of contribution. While it did not happen to me cause I saw it coming a lot of my friends panicked when their 401's crashed in 08' making the predators like John Paulson Billionaires (8 Billon income in one year while employing only 3 people) and making my friends paupers who have to work till they're 90 to get back to where they were.
Wall street regulation, Main street paving and industrial repatriation are the keys here.....you have to grow your way out of this mess you cannot cut your way out!

----
Stay well,

Adam Nehr


[masked]
[masked] cell


\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"To make an apple pie you must first create the universe\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"....Carl Sagan


--------- Original Message --------From: [address removed]To: "[address removed]" <[address removed]>Subject: Re: [atheists-36] Tea Party & Fiscal PrudenceDate: 10/18/13 23:11
I do not disagree with any of your proposals but my concern is that even if you do all the eliminations of tax loopholes, and add the taxes that you suggest, that the magnitude of the deficit and national debt problem is such that you are likely going to have to increase the social security retirement age by more than just 6 months.  My guess is that my retirement age will need to increase from 67 to 70 or more.  I did some research on the federal budget and tried to come up with a plan and was blown away by how massive the problem is.  I will have to do some more research and crank out the numbers to prove that my assertion is hopefully wrong.


-----Original Message-----From: Daniel Strack <[address removed]>To: atheists-36 <[address removed]>Sent: Sat, Oct 19,[masked]:11 amSubject: Re: [atheists-36] Tea Party & Fiscal Prudence
     The bottom line is that a combination of spending cuts and tax increases is required to balance the budget.  The Tea Party has made the latter choice a virtual non-starter as things now stand.  My hope is that Hillary Clinton will get elected in a 2016 landslide, bringing in so many Democrats that it will once again be possible to pursue a sensible Bill Clinton-like budget.  I can't quite get to "cautiously optimistic" but I do have hope.  The Tea Party is dangerous not only due to the "True Believer's" unwillingness to compromise but, more particularly, because these believers get all their "news" from the right wing noise machine.  An article in this month's Skeptical Enquirer goes into some detail on how uninformed most of them are.
     I would like to see loopholes in the law, such as the one subsidizing Big Oil, put to rest.  A financial transactions tax of .05%, I've read, would raise many billions of dollars a year.  The figure may have been in excess of $400,000,000,000 but I won't swear to that.  A more selective tax on risky transactions such as credit default swaps could also raise billions.  If necessary, there is still plenty of room to raise taxes on the truly wealthy, but I would do it of necessity, not simply due to the opportunity to do so.  How about not subsidizing companies who send jobs overseas? (another of the previously mentioned loopholes)  Maybe some selective tax breaks for adding jobs to the U.S. economy would be in order.  Finally, I would take President Eisenhower's admonition to beware of the Military-Industrial complex seriously and find areas where defense spending could be safely cut. 
     F.D.R. set up Social Security as a self-funding entity not dependent on federal largess, "so no damned politician can take it away," which may not be an exact quote, but is close.  Therefor, I think an excellent way to raise additional funds would be to remove the income cap on F.I.C.A. taxes, for both employees and employers.  This would also help Medicare.  If, and only if, that were not enough, I'd consider adding no more than six months to the retirement age..  We do live much longer than when the program was set up and there are far fewer people, percentage wise, supporting retirees with their payments.  I would not adjust the formula for determining Social Security payments either up or down unless future results (not likely) make larger payments possible.  Anything beyond these suggestions would be up to a future generation. 
-----Original Message-----From: Jeffrey Young <[address removed]>To: atheists-36 <[address removed]>Sent: Fri, Oct 18,[masked]:27 amSubject: [atheists-36] Tea Party & Fiscal Prudence
Both sides in this issue are at fault in not dealing with the national debt issue.   Currently, the total annual national expenses exceed the total annual national income by about 20%.  This includes entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, as well as Defense - each of which are about 1/5 of total expenses.  The other 1/5 is all the other Federal programs.  Therefore, if we could go to a balanced budget instantly, this means a combination of program cuts/increased taxes of 20%.
 
This means cuts will have to be made in entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid as well as defense. Alternatively, it means elimination of tax loopholes and tax increases anywhere up to 20% more than today.
Both sides refuse to acknowledge this reality.  At least some segments of the Tea Party acknowledge that govenment expenses need to be cut and I agree with them on this point. Although I disagree with their strategy to shut down the government over Obamacare, I think that this action brought the issue about government spending to the forefront - particularly the concern that Obamacare may dramatically raise medical costs.  I do not agree with the segment of the Tea Party that refuses to consider tax increases and/or elimination of tax loopholes as well as the advocacy of a social/religious agenda. 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----From: Norma Jeane Young <[address removed]>To: atheists-36 <[address removed]>Sent: Fri, Oct 18,[masked]:19 amSubject: [atheists-36] Dysfunction ("No More.")
Jeffrey,
 
If the Tea Party people were SO concerned with "fiscal responsibility," they wouldn't have wasted $24 BILLION over the past 2 weeks & caused so much misery to people--even to the point of being willing to wreck the global economy that is struggling to recover.  They were voting as a "bloc" of corporate-religious-controlled & controlling climate-change deniers--not as individuals.  They all still voted in the final vote to default! on the nation's debt -- for the first time in history! -- in order to prevent health care coverage to millions of U. S. citizens -- AND outlaw birth control --which default would have been catastrophic to the fragile U.S. & World Economies.
 
--Norma
 


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Elizabeth Warren <[address removed]>
To: Norma Young <[address removed]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16,[masked]:24 PM
Subject: Dysfunction

 
Norma,I'm glad that the government shutdown has ended, and I'm relieved that we didn't default on our debt.But I want to be clear: I am NOT celebrating tonight.Yes, we prevented an economic catastrophe that would have put a huge hole in our fragile economic recovery. But the reason we were in this mess in the first place is that a reckless faction in Congress took the government and the economy hostage for no good purpose and to no productive end.According to the S&P index, the government shutdown had delivered a powerful blow to the U.S. economy. By their estimates, $24 billion has been flushed down the drain for a completely unnecessary political stunt.$24 billion dollars. How many children could have been back in Head Start classes? How many seniors could have had a hot lunch through Meals on Wheels? How many scientists could have gotten their research funded? How many bridges could have been repaired and trains upgraded?  The Republicans keep saying, "Leave the sequester in place and cut all those budgets." They keep trying to cut funding for the things that would help us build a future. But they are ready to flush away $24 billion on a political stunt.So I'm relieved, but I'm also pretty angry.We have serious problems that need to be fixed, and we have hard choices to make about taxes and spending. I hope we never see our country flush money away like this again. Not ever.It's time for the hostage taking to end. It's time for every one of us to say, "No more."Thank you,Elizabeth 
 
 Donate 
 
Web Bug from https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/conversion/966320450/?label=JD1aCM7u9QIQwsLjzAM&guid=ON&script=0Web Bug from http://my.elizabethwarren.com/page/o/2852d687/458d4131/6878c3b0/66b6c35b/2350413037/open.gif
--Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])This message was sent by Norma Jeane Young ([address removed]) from Orlando Freethinkers & Humanists.To learn more about Norma Jeane Young, visit his/her member profileTo report abuse or block this person, please click hereSet my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])This message was sent by Jeffrey Young ([address removed]) from Orlando Freethinkers & Humanists.To learn more about Jeffrey Young, visit his/her member profileTo report abuse or block this person, please click hereSet my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])This message was sent by Daniel Strack (mailto:danieltrack40@aol..com) from Orlando Freethinkers & Humanists.To learn more about Daniel Strack, visit his/her member profileTo report abuse or block this person, please click hereSet my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])This message was sent by Jeffrey Young ([address removed]) from Orlando Freethinkers & Humanists.To learn more about Jeffrey Young, visit his/her member profileTo report abuse or block this person, please click hereSet my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]
--Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed])This message was sent by Adam Nehr ([address removed]) from Orlando Freethinkers & Humanists.To learn more about Adam Nehr, visit his/her member profileTo report abuse or block this person, please click hereSet my mailing list to email me As they are sent | In one daily email | Don't send me mailing list messages Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [address removed]

Our Sponsors

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy