Mailing List Archive

Subject Sender Date
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - @robert - Not going outside the firewall is a policy issue. So no SauceLabs. @will - I'll have to take a deeper look at Geb. May be a good alternative to a web project using maven in Jenkins. I think I can use Geb + Node.js in Jenki Cjad E. Aug 1, 2015 4:15 PM
Re: [jsmn] RPC JS - I don't have anything specific to RPC, but arguably the web is itself a form of RPC; the difference between secure RPC and a secure website is a matter of degree. MDN has a good section on web security technologies: https://developer.mozilla.org/­en-US David L. Jul 29, 2015 9:55 AM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - Indeed it does, Scott! Highly recommend anyone interested in JS testing come check it out :) My thoughts on all of this are: - Unit, integration, and end-to-end testing are all important part Will B. Jul 29, 2015 9:28 AM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - MidwestJS usually has a testing track. Probably some really interesting presentations. That's coming up here in August. Might be worth a checkout.& Scott S. Jul 29, 2015 9:12 AM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - I did a presentation last year at TC Code Camp on testing JavaScript in a Grails app.  We separate out our JavaScript code into separate modules, test them independently using Jasmine and then run them thru phantomjs as part of the build.� John U. Jul 29, 2015 8:41 AM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - This is a great discussion. My team at ReachLocal is moving beyond their JS unit testing in Jasmine and doing integration testing in the browser for multiple browsers using Sauce Labs. We are still driving those integration tests robert t. Jul 29, 2015 8:28 AM
Re: [jsmn] RPC JS - Hello Greg, RPC security is a big topic. The solution is depending on what you are trying to achieve here. You can use HTTP Basic Authentication, X.509 certificates, OAuth2, etc. The easiest solution is usi Ilya V. Jul 29, 2015 12:56 AM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - Jeff, Chad, Off the mark from discussion, I follow the angular recipe.  In Jenkins, Karma invokes jasmine unit tests for js and nunit for .net services. CT CT Y. Jul 28, 2015 10:38 PM
RPC JS - Does anyone know a good resource on RPC security? I am looking to port an ExtJS app from purely client-side over to Ext Direct and have not found any good resources on RPC security. TIA! Greg-- Greg M. S. Jul 28, 2015 7:20 PM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - Unfortunately we cannot go outside our firewalls so SauceLabs is out. :( I will see about putting together a presentaton, but not sure I can make the August meetup. On Jul 28,[masked]:51 PM, "Jeff Conra Cjad E. Jul 28, 2015 6:52 PM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - Chad, we have a similar app framework (spring tiles jquery bootstrap backbone) and use qunit, junit, spock and Geb, selenium as well. If you already have selenium it is similar t Jeff C. Jul 28, 2015 7:59 AM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - I have an implementation that works well for our needs. Before we go full boat across our applications, I wanted to bounce it off others to see if there was a better, or more simplified approach. In reading Testable JavaSc Cjad E. Jul 27, 2015 6:28 PM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - Have you looked into more of a BDD (behavior drive development) with jasmine? I would think if there was enough of a drive for this as its a very focused topic we could start a meetup group for it? Brandon B. Jul 27, 2015 5:53 PM
Re: [jsmn] JavaScript Unit Testing? - Chad: Sorry, I don't know of any groups focused on JS unit testing, but unit testing would be great topic at this meetup! Do you have small, encapsulated bits of logic you want to test or are you looking for more robert t. Jul 27, 2015 5:26 PM
JavaScript Unit Testing? - Anyone know of a good JS unit test group? In MN would be even better, but I'll take a good one anywhere. I am looking to hear how others are handling JS unit testing with JSP's as well as hear what others are doing in a more ente Cjad E. Jul 24, 2015 10:34 PM
Workshop Giveaways: Web App Dev, Angular w/ES6 and Node.js API Design - Just a quick note that a few seats just opened to next week's workshops! Reply directly to me if you're interested in attending either next Monday & Tuesday's  Marc G. Jul 14, 2015 2:13 PM
[JOB] UI Engineer - We’re looking for a UI Engineer for a Full-Time position at Digital River. The team is small (~5 people) and bureaucracy is limited. Pretty Agile and fun team to work on. Stack right now is basically: Nathan S. Jul 14, 2015 11:56 AM
[Job] Entry Level Web Development Opening - My team is currently looking to fill a Junior level/entry development opportunity for a ~12 month contract position in Woodbury, MN. We Jon Jul 14, 2015 11:16 AM
Geekettes Workshop - 7/21 - Looking for volunteers - body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;­font-size:13px} Jenna P. Jul 14, 2015 9:50 AM
[JOB] GreatBizTools - Front-End Developer Contract - GreatBizTools - Small, innovative company seeking front-end developer for web-based applications pertaining to human resource management in the areas of staffing and training. Require experience with AngularJS, JQuery, Bootstrap, and UI design. Peter J. F. Jul 7, 2015 7:28 PM
Meetup Updates - Hey team, Just wanted to send out a quick set of updates on the Meetup group. 1.) The June meetup is cancelled.  We will be back in action in July after the holiday, with an event covering Kevin W. Jun 22, 2015 2:29 PM
June Meetup - Hi team We are in need of a speaker for next weeks meetup. If you have something you would like to share with the group, or know of someone who does, send me a direct email.  Thanks - R Randall M. Jun 17, 2015 5:33 PM
Workshop Giveaways: Web App Dev, Angular w/ES6 and Node.js API Design - Hey fellow  JavaScriptMN 'rs! Marc G. Jun 12, 2015 2:16 PM
CycleHack Twin Cities (June 19 + 20) - CycleHack Twin Cities is happening next weekend, June 19 + 20. CycleHack is an event focused on hacking the challenges and barriers to cycling. The Twin Cities is a very bikable city when compared to other US cities, but there are still many reasons t Alan P. Jun 9, 2015 1:00 PM
Re: [jsmn] Person looking for freelancers at last meetup? - Seth Philips www.trms.com Sent from my iPhone On Jun 4, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Kevin W Seth P. Jun 4, 2015 8:44 PM
Re: [jsmn] Person looking for freelancers at last meetup? - I need developers with ember exp if somebody was looking On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 7:03 PM Kevin Whinnery < [address removed] > wrote: David P. Jun 4, 2015 7:16 PM
Person looking for freelancers at last meetup? - Had someone inquire about who was looking for freelancers to do prototype work (Ember was mentioned) at the last meetup. Does anyone remember who that was? Thanks, -Kevin -- Kevin W. Jun 4, 2015 7:02 PM
Speaker next week - Hi team, We are in need of a speaker for next week's meeting - does anyone have something they'd like to share with the group?  Let me know off-list in a direct e-mail. Thanks! Kevin W. May 20, 2015 3:42 PM
Overnight web challenge - Hey, All. I'm hoping to participate in the overnight web challenge on May 2nd at the Nerdery. Is anyone interested in forming Lynn Apr 21, 2015 8:08 PM
April Speaker - Hey team, We are still in need of a speaker for this month. However, I know several folks have reached out over the past months looking for an opportunity to speak. If you are one of these folks, shoot me a note and let m Kevin W. Apr 21, 2015 9:53 AM
Hack the Gap: An All-Women Hackathon - 5/16-5/17 - body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;­font-size:13px} Jenna P. Apr 20, 2015 9:54 PM
Workshop Giveaways: Async JS, Testing in JS and Meteor.js - Hey fellow  JSMN 'rs! Marc G. Apr 7, 2015 5:15 PM
Invite to Signal Conference - Hey team, Just wanted to formally invite each of you to Twilio's Signal Conference in May in San Francisco.   http://signal.twilio.com Kevin W. Apr 2, 2015 8:46 AM
Anyone who can tutor me for about an hour probably by phone on how a github chat sample app that uses node.js socket.io works? - [address removed] Anyone who can tutor me for about an hour probably by phone on how a github chat sample app that uses node.js socket.io works. I just need to get up t Mike H. Mar 25, 2015 5:30 PM
Workshop Giveaways: Famo.us, AngularJS, Getting Started w/JS & Using All of JS - Hey fellow JSMN'rs! I'm excited to let you know we are giving away a bunch of tickets to our upcoming front-end development workshops in Burnsville, MN. You can even register to win an online ticket if you can't make it Marc G. Mar 11, 2015 1:02 PM
Re: [jsmn] ES 6 generator syntax - Robert H. Mar 6, 2015 10:01 AM
Call For March Speaker - Hello all happy Friday! I have the honor helping JSMN find a speaker this month. If you have a talk you would like to share please contact me off list.  Suggestions ...... React.js Randall M. Mar 6, 2015 8:36 AM
Re: [jsmn] ES 6 generator syntax - Regarding Kevin's initial question around http requests.....You can use generators as way to synchronize http requests...which can make the code much cleaner with fewer nested callbacks. This youtube video helped me s Tom P. Feb 28, 2015 2:57 PM
Re: [jsmn] ES 6 generator syntax - A "yield" also makes multiple functional calls on an enumerated list look like a string of operations, rather than multiple nested operations. For example a "list.filter(f_1(x)).map(­f_2(x)).reduce(f_3(x))" where f_1, f_2 David Feb 28, 2015 8:53 AM
Re: [jsmn] ES 6 generator syntax - When I read about the yield keyword in ES6 I immediately thought of c#'s ability to create custom enumerables. One possibility for javascript would be an implementation of Linq where the queries don't have to run to completion before Todd P. Feb 28, 2015 3:47 AM
Re: [jsmn] ES 6 generator syntax - I envision them being used a lot like promises that could return multiple values.  For instance, go fetch "SELECT * FROM Table1".  You could get them all at once (could be really slow) or fetch them one at a time with a generato Tyler A. Feb 27, 2015 11:39 PM
Re: [jsmn] ES 6 generator syntax - Robert H. Feb 27, 2015 5:44 PM
Re: [jsmn] ES 6 generator syntax - addendum: I've learned they are being used as primitives in a 100x better end-user syntax for ES 7: http://jakearchibald.com/2014/­es7-async-functions/ Kevin W. Feb 27, 2015 3:52 PM
ES 6 generator syntax - Someone convince me it's not complete and utter garbage. I spent some time looking at it today to see how I'd update Twilio's node module to provide a generator-based API (for making HTTP requests) and left th Kevin W. Feb 27, 2015 3:08 PM
Placeholders in IE9 - Jason M. Feb 19, 2015 3:03 PM
Re: [jsmn] "You're Missing The Point of Server Side Rendered JavaScript Apps" - Thanks for the link. I have been toying with the idea of converting all of our Ext.Ajax.Request calls with Ext.Direct in an ExtJS app I am building to hit our Flask API server using the Flask-ExtDirect library. I see the benefits of this appr Greg M. S. Feb 5, 2015 9:53 PM
"You're Missing The Point of Server Side Rendered JavaScript Apps" - Pertinent to prior discussions, a look at the rationale for server-rendered JS apps from Tom Dale of the Ember team: ht Kevin W. Feb 5, 2015 12:27 PM
OT: dev.Objective() 2015 Call for Speakers - Hi everyone, I hope it is OK to post this here.  My name is Jason Dean and I am a member of the Steering Committee and Content Advisory Boar Jason D. Jan 29, 2015 3:44 PM
Code from last night's talk - Here's the simple Backbone / Express app that was shown at the meetup last night: https://github.com/kwhinnery/t­emplate-example You Kevin W. Jan 29, 2015 3:25 PM
Meetup tomorrow! - Hey team, Just a quick reminder that our monthly meeting is tomorrow night. I'll be talking about how we're using Backbone and Node at Twilio on a redesign of our documentation site, specifically about re-using Ja Kevin W. Jan 27, 2015 11:51 AM
This Wednesday: Sharing Templates on the Front and Back End with Backbone and Node.js - I've updated this Meetup. For more details, see the full listing: http://www.meetup.com/JavaScri­ptMN/events/219789311/ When : Wednesday, January 28,[masked] Kevin W. Jan 26, 2015 9:48 AM
Workshop Giveaways: SVG, React.js and FramerJS - Hey fellow JSMN'rs. Hope to see you at tomorrow's meetup! I'll be there. :-) I wanted to let you know we are giving away a bunch of tickets to our upcoming workshops in Burnsville, MN. You can also participate Marc G. Jan 20, 2015 12:19 PM
MidwestJS Call For Papers - Hello everyone, I'm reaching out to the community and want to let you know MidwestJS 's call-for-papers is currently open until Feb 28th. We'd love some more talks E Anthony K. Jan 13, 2015 9:17 AM
Call For Co-Organizers - Hey everyone, In 2015 we hope to continue improving JavaScriptMN and enhance it's usefulness to the community of developers here in the Cities and beyond. Over the past four years (kind of hard to believe it's bee Kevin W. Jan 10, 2015 7:17 PM
Re: [jsmn] [HD-Video] Node.js & NoSQL: Why you should build your next app with Nodejitsu & Cloudant - Aaaaaaand banned. Sorry for the spam, everybody. :-\ On Jan 9,[masked]:30 PM, "Linda Cooper" < [address removed] > wrote: James G. Jan 9, 2015 3:37 PM
[HD-Video] Node.js & NoSQL: Why you should build your next app with Nodejitsu & Cloudant - Node.js & NoSQL: Why you should build your next app with Nodejitsu & Cloudant by Jarrett Cruger, Engineer, Nodejitsu & Sam Bisbee, CXO, Cloudant Watch now in HD-Video at: Linda C. Jan 9, 2015 2:29 PM
Happy New Year! Call For January Speaker - Happy New Year JavaScripters, I hope you all had a fun and relaxing holiday season. We'll be returning to our usual format this month with a community speaker - which of you talented individuals will it be this month? Kevin W. Jan 5, 2015 10:43 AM
December Meetup - Happy Holidays JavaScripters, This month's meeting will be an informal hack day inspired by 24 Pull Requests ( http://24pullrequests.com ) - we'll be taking some time to contr Kevin W. Dec 13, 2014 3:51 PM
JavaScript Developer and Front-end Web Developer positions available. - Hi Everyone. Melanie C. Dec 2, 2014 3:08 PM
Free Tickets to Next Week's JS, jQuery & DOM Scripting Workshop - Justin Meyer and Alexis Abril, JavaScript masters, will be here in Burnsville MN on December 4th & 5th -- next Thursday & Friday! Marc G. Nov 26, 2014 12:34 PM
November Meetup - Hey team, We didn't want to put you in the uncomfortable position of having to leave Thanksgiving dinner for the JavaScript meetup, so we moved it to Thursday, November 20th . Also, please note that this month Kevin W. Nov 10, 2014 11:29 AM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Google is really concerned about latency and its impact on user engagement. A few links: https://support.google.com/ana­lytics/answer/4589209?hl=en http://perspectives.mvdirona.c­om/2009/10/31/TheCostOfLatency­.aspx Your point is well taken about David L. Nov 6, 2014 2:41 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - @Tyler The buzz word for that approach in 2006 was Hijax . Also exciting in 2006: png alpha channel support in IE7. Sorry, I kid. But seriously Dan M. Nov 6, 2014 2:27 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - I think there is a lot of re-inventing the wheel when it comes to this stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm neck deep into angular and to get sucked into trying to figure out how to develop every app with a framework such as that.  Randall M. Nov 6, 2014 2:26 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - FYI, GitHub is built with Rails + PJAX.  The effect is supposedly similar to Turbolinks. FWIW, jQuery Mobile has offered a similar functionality for a long time with its `$.mobile.changePage()`/`"­pagechange"` e James G. Nov 6, 2014 2:24 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Here, by the way, is the Southstreet workflow Filament Group talked about at An Event Apart. https://github.com/filamentgro­up/southstreet It's a set of tools for Kamran A. Nov 6, 2014 2:01 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Just to stick my neck out there like a Thanksgiving turkey, I too would like to see the improved load times and interactivity with a single page site but also would like to have HTML prerendered.  Having these full stack JS frameworks, in Tyler A. Nov 6, 2014 1:51 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - prerender.io ALL the services doing it seem like shady likely-to-fail startup companies, but at least the code behind prerender.io is open source, so we Dan M. Nov 6, 2014 1:33 PM
Free Tickets to Next Friday's SMACSS Workshop (Scalable Modular Architecture for CSS) - Jonathan Snook, author of Scalable Modular Architecture for CSS book and famous CSS master, will be here in Burnsville MN on November 14th -- next Friday! Marc G. Nov 6, 2014 1:32 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - @Dan how are you implementing the HTML snapshots for the _escaped_fragment_ requests today? On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Dan Menssen < Kevin W. Nov 6, 2014 1:30 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Sorry, that was a snarky way of saying "just render everything on the server," "Rails app" being shorthand for "the way people used to do it before full stack Javascript frameworks." Dan M. Nov 6, 2014 1:24 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - I misremembered, the presentation was talking about Gov.uk, not BBC (BBC was another example for PE). Here's the blog post from the team: Kamran A. Nov 6, 2014 1:21 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - " If you're one of the few edge cases where this is really an issue, just build a Rails app or whatever." James G. Nov 6, 2014 1:16 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - I'm reading The Leprechauns of Software Engineering  right now, which might be predisposing me to try to attack these empirical claims, so bear with me. First, on t Dan M. Nov 6, 2014 1:03 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - @Kamran that seems to be a common approach- would make an amazing presentation at the meetup! On Thursday, November 6, 2014, Kamran Ayub < [address removed] > wrote: Kevin W. Nov 6, 2014 8:48 AM
RE: Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Hi guys, We use PhantomJS to snapshot our pages after googlebot attempts to index. We ad Kamran A. Nov 6, 2014 7:29 AM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - The primary win beyond making it possible for bots to crawl your site without added complexity is making initial page loads faster.  This is a big deal for content you want to be discovered from search. The time it takes to load the p Kevin W. Nov 6, 2014 6:37 AM
Re: Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;­font-size:13px} Paul J D. Nov 5, 2014 9:57 PM
Re: Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - I'm having a hard time following why you really need the server side rendering. The deep linking problem is solvable with front-end code only. If the URL is the primary holder of truth for the UI state (Angular and Em Dan M. Nov 5, 2014 9:54 PM
Re: Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - If a set of rich client technologies exist that gracefully handle server-side rendering I will happily use them. I don't see evidence that such a stack exists, however. To render HTML on the server with cod Kevin W. Nov 5, 2014 8:13 PM
Re: Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;­font-size:13px} Paul J D. Nov 5, 2014 6:00 PM
Re: Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - If we back the truck all the way up, here's what I wish I had in a framework: - Makes the URL the primary holder of truth for the state of the UI (like Ember) - uses the same routing scheme and rendering mec Kevin W. Nov 5, 2014 5:32 PM
Re: Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Hey All, Running TrackJS , Todd H G. Nov 5, 2014 4:27 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - If it makes any difference, Google will "soon" be executing your javascript  (see caveats and description at the Adam T. Nov 4, 2014 1:51 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Kevin -- Have you tried prerender.io ? Sincerely,     James Greene James G. Nov 4, 2014 1:45 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - The use case is geared around reference documentation, so SEO is a top of mind concern. Currently we're using Backbone (and Marionette) on the front end, which is fine, but we're having a hell of a time getting deeper content in the Kevin W. Nov 4, 2014 1:20 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - As of yet, Meteor doesn't support server-side rendering, though it's on the roadmap for 1.1: https://trello.com/c/Lz07fBAm/­7-server-side-rendering Tim Nov 4, 2014 12:00 PM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Not out of the box. Fast render is a good plugin, but I am not sure if that’s what you are really looking for.  Depends on why you need server side rendering. ht Alan P. Nov 4, 2014 11:57 AM
Re: [jsmn] Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Meteor tech question - how well does meteor work for rendering the same templates either client- or server-side?  I am looking at rendering Backbone with rendr or React, but I vaguely thought meteor was kind of built for this. Kevin W. Nov 4, 2014 11:45 AM
Worldwide Meteor Day event on Thursday - Hey all! One of our sibling groups, Meteor Minneapolis, is hosting a special event this Thursday as part of the international "Worldwide Meteor 1.0 Day" series of event James G. Nov 4, 2014 9:20 AM
WebRatio Mobile Beta Program - Hi everybody, It’s been a pleasure meeting y Emanuele M. Nov 3, 2014 4:15 PM
Re: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - Susan is cool. And that is $1600 less than my policy cost that I started last year (it covered two people though). Very helpful information, thanks Susan! -Erik Erik M. Nov 3, 2014 10:52 AM
Re: [jsmn] MDC 2014 Talk on TypeScript - Very inspirational talk. On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Kamran Ayub < [address removed] > CT Y. Nov 1, 2014 4:19 PM
Re: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - And yes, if it wasn't clear Susan is a long-time FOTMUG (Friend of the MeetUp Group, pronounced FAHT-mug) with long service to all of us. Her intent was clearly just to provide useful information. Kevin W. Oct 28, 2014 5:07 PM
Re: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - I'm pretty sure the conversation this email has sparked represents the bulk of all email I have received from this group for the past three months. The list is fine, the group is fine, Kevin your doing great, all is good, nothing to see Randall M. Oct 28, 2014 4:01 PM
Re: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - I didn't think it was spam, that's why I didn't say anything. A majority of us read what's going on, make a mental note, and not really post back to a large list of folks. Lurkers you might call us. Mailing lists aren't Seth M. Oct 28, 2014 3:38 PM
Re: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - I have been meaning to set up separate lists for some time. Anyone interested in volunteering to help get that set up? On Tuesday, October 28, 2014, Collin Graves < [address removed] > w Kevin W. Oct 28, 2014 3:26 PM
Re[2]: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - Susan's email was far from spam, and probably the reason the majority of the subscribers on this list are here to begin with. -Collin Tuesday, October 28, 2014, 8:17 AM -0500 from Will Buck <william.parker.buck@ Collin G. Oct 28, 2014 10:42 AM
Re: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - For anyone thinking a post from Susan might be spam, take a chance to shake her hand at the next meetup (she'll likely be handing out beer.) Susan ( https://www.linkedin. Eric C. Oct 28, 2014 8:56 AM
Re: [jsmn] Professional E&O insurance - Hate to pile on to the 'spam' (set filters for your meetup emails, y'all!), but even though I'm not an indie I thought this email was reasonably appropriate.  It seemed to me like an earnest recommendatio Will B. Oct 28, 2014 8:17 AM

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