Re: [KC-Midtown-FreeThinkers] Dear Religion

From: Adam
Sent on: Friday, August 10, 2012 10:53 AM
Devil's advocate mode:

It is true that in days long gone, some churches did fund some significant research, provided for and supported schools, etc.  That is a common response Ive seen a number of times, and it is true.  It needs to be remembered though that those churches did often then decide to bury research they didn't like the results of (much as governments do these days) with varying levels of success.

It is also important to remember that scientific advancement is not a pure "good" thing either.  Much development goes in to improving the ways we have to kill each other (and to heal those harmed while trying to kill each other (which is a good thing, just not in why it is needed.))

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Marlys Kummer Doerflinger <[address removed]> wrote:
Sorry that prior email got away from me. 
Some religious 
Ignore the reality of science in favor of what some old men who knew less about the world said in a book thousands of years ago.  And these people vote.  Religion has a history of 
trying to hold science back.  Just look at how the heliocentric solar system, birth control, and evolution have been resisted by the church. 

Marlys & Gene


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2012, at 6:53 AM, Penelope Camel <[address removed]> wrote:

 
 
Fred,
 
One doesn't need a belief in Jesus to have empathy and to love one's neighbor, etc.  I gave up my Jesus belief because my mind tells me there's no reason to believe in the guy or any religion.  I don't need a religious belief to believe in the "evil" of social injustice and how wrong it is for humans to be destroying their "nest." 
 
From what I see, the people who are pre-occupied with their religious beliefs are, indeed, part of the "problem."  Their religious beliefs prevent them from dealing with reality and in accepting the fact that it is up to us humans to solve the problems we face and the problems we solve. 
 
Believers all think that their beliefs are the "one, true answer" to everything.  This alone has divided us and kept us from getting along.  Believers are so intent on defending and spreading their take on things, while they should just accept that we are all the same species, let's accept our oneness, and focus efforts on loving one another in an environmentally sustainable way.  But, instead, everybody thinks they are right, everyone else is wrong, and this divisive, non-loving dynamic has us infighting and not loving each other.
 
The human condition, over the past few thousand years, has been improved because of rational thinking and science much more than to any religious belief, in my opinion. 
 
"Go forth and multiply" . . . . . that religious belief has certainly gotten us to where human population numbers, together with our thoughtless ways of living, could be the main cause of ours and earth's demise.  (Maybe that gospel message could be in error?!)
 
Science, rational thinking, and our empathy must supercede ignorance, superstition, and living primarily for a life in the hereafter.
 
Non-believers are just as capable of loving one another as believers.  Non-believers do it because it's the right thing to do and not to forego "eternal punishment."
 
Humans better get beyond the "religious belief age" and focus their efforts on surviving as a species, loving each other, and not destroying earth.
 
Margie


From: Fred <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Fri, August 10,[masked]:36:24 AM
Subject: Re: [KC-Midtown-FreeThinkers] Dear Religion

Thanks for a reasoned response, Adam.  Not rude at all.  I gotta get to bed, but I'll look at that video soon and respond.  In the meantime, I'll agree that many religious people, especially wrongly educated Christians, are trained to use their religion to justify harm or ignorance.  I'm among their victims.

I'll also say there's a bunch of us Christians who don't debate what kind of chicken sandwich to eat.  But most importantly to begin to answer your question:  I've dedicated much of my life to understanding and communicating that body of knowledge we call science.  Science and technology give us the means to do some of the things that can solve the greatest needs of our time:  cure diseases, find better ways of food distribution, bring clean water, educate, maybe even eliminate poverty.  All these things are now within our grasp, and accumulated knowledge about the physical world has brought us to this place where we could now eliminate hunger and 95 percent of the third world's problems with disease, poverty, crime, etc.  So why haven't we done it?  Why aren't we doing it?  

We, as a species, lack the motivation.  Science gives us the technological solutions.  Jesus, who told me to love my neighbor as myself and even to love my enemies, gives me the motivation to implement them.

Fred



On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Adam <[address removed]> wrote:
At the risk of being rude...
So... churches accomplish things advancing society like the things science does?  Eliminating Polio, exploring the universe, explaining why the air around purified radium is electrically charged, devising algorithms that are fundamental to programing computers long before such devices are even conceived?

I ask very seriously, aside from warm and comforting feelings, which I do know religion/faith provides, I don't see what a person gets out of them.  But I have seen from talking with you that you do get something I don't understand out of your beliefs (even though I grew up religious, there is something not registering) so... perhaps that is what you get that I am missing.

Now I do agree that in a historical context, religion served man.  When most of the world was unknown, it helped bridge the space between villages, and spread similar thought patterns.  But I personally don't see it as useful in that context any more, and it had a VERY high price even then. In truth I see it as detrimental to furthering the cause of "universal understanding" between modern cultures, as I say so very often though: "that is a whole other discussion."  (But that is also using "religion" as something a little synonymous with closed mindedness, as is brilliantly discussed by Neil deGrasse Tyson in his "naming rights" discussion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDAT98eEN5Q, though I don't think many religious people agree with people who think religion looks that way from the outside.)

Anyway, I really only object to religion when it is used to justify harm or ignorance.  Shoot, I'm ok with voodoo, but ask "so... are you going to eat that chicken?"  But I would like to see specifics of claims.  (That is what science does, I know many who say "its not up to religion to be testable." *shrug*)

My two bits (and then some) I hope I don't appear to be jumping all over you, I just don't agree that modern humanity gets anything from religion.


On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Fred <[address removed]> wrote:
All right, get ready to jump all over me:

Dear Atheist,
While you were bogged down in the either-or fallacy, I was getting the most I could out of both science and religion.
Sincerely,
Your Pal Christian

Fred


On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Marlys Kummer Doerflinger <[address removed]> wrote:

I agree.   This is perfect for a Facebook post.

 

From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Joe Thomas
Sent: Thursday, August 09,[masked]:53 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [KC-Midtown-FreeThinkers] Dear Religion

 

That is EPIC!! Beautiful 

On Aug 7, 2012, at 8:51 PM, cole morgan <[address removed]> wrote:

 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: GREG GLADISH <[address removed]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 7,[masked]:49 PM
Subject: Dear Religion

 



 

Greg G

 

 

 



<dear>

 





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Don't part with your illusions.
When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.

-- Mark Twain


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