Robin
Robin.Homer
London, GB
Post #: 8
Hi

Would just like to draw everyone's attention to a series on Youtube.
It details one persons path out of a theistic world view, and it does so in great depth.

One of the things I've always thought necessary in discussions, is to have an understanding of the radically different world views other people have, and I feel this series gives a good glimpse into it.
At various stages you may find yourself agreeing or disagreeing with his logic, but the important thing I feel, is to understand the world through his eyes at each stage. I really think the series has contributed to my understanding of how other people might view the world...Plus it has a happy ending (spoiler alert, he's no longer a Christian!)

Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.co...­
Brian
roy23
London, GB
Post #: 84
Yes Robin, it is great.........
It is great to see their problem through their eyes,

I have never been so smitten by the book or concept ....hey these people actually believe in this stuff...wow what a mind f field.
Georgi L.
Guffaw
London, GB
Post #: 1,731
Hi Robin,

As you say, it is always SO much more powerful when it comes from a former sufferer of the same strain of the faith virus than it can be from someone else, especially from those of us that were lucky enough not to be ever really afflicted.

So this guy here sharing his journey, and showing it in a sincere and step-by-step way is like a whole course that could really help some people break their own cycle. Question is, how can we get Xtians to watch it? We're tentatively talking about an atheist TV channel, and it might be pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking but you have to start somewhere. Seems to me this would be an ideal candidate for content on such a channel. Great stuff, thank you!

And as Greta Christina says here, sufferers are unlikely to get over the virus with just one dose, and that course of doses also has to be tailored and specific to each sufferer. That makes our job very hard indeed, and that is if we can even get them to listen in the first place. But that cycle has to be broken somehow, and if we shirk from it then I feel like we're effectively condemning another generation of children to abuse. (This letter is very powerful, IMO).

Whilst religion needs all kinds of approaches to tackle it, I think for us as an activist group, it might be more practical to try the Peter Boghossian method "to create atheists", as it doesn't require detailed knowledge of specifics and is also a non-confrontational, sincere way of trying to get through without being regarded as an attack on person's identity. That only enshrines people further into their dogma I think, as a defence mechanism, but this method seems to be about gently building a conversation about 'we' rather than 'you' - how can WE know that? (rather than specifics about god/religion/politics).

We're planning to get a small team of LAAGers together to practise it, and then try it out for real on August 25th,when we will have a LAAG group stand at SC. Actually I had already mentioned your name to the other organisers as one of the potential speakers because I was impressed with how calmly you handled yourself at SC last time. Anyway, we'll email you with more details and you can see if you want to be involved...

Robin
Robin.Homer
London, GB
Post #: 9
Hey Ginny

Question is, how can we get Xtians to watch it?
Something we hear time an again in these videos is that it's not a single knockdown argument that converts people, it's usually a long arduous struggle over many years, which they take themselves on. So I wouldn't hold out any hopes of these videos knocking anyone out of their faith, actually I was thinking they might be more useful to us atheists, especially the somewhat ignorant ones like me, who have never been theistic and find the world view ridiculously hard to comprehend. The question I'm asking myself these days is: "How can we get Xtians to start this journey?"

We're tentatively talking about an atheist TV channel
What a cooincidence; I was thinking just the other day that there was so much high quality stuff on Youtube, it could bascially be aired 24/7 as a tv channel!
What would your focus and style be?

as Greta Christina says, sufferers are unlikely to get over the virus with just one dose,
I agree
and that course of doses also has to be tailored and specific to each sufferer.
Agree
That makes our job very hard indeed, and that is if we can even get them to listen in the first place.
Agree.
However we shouldn't necessarily expect a silver bullet. What I think we should focus on, is general principles that work better than others. Just as there is no grand theory of education, but there are certain methodologies that are acknowledged to work better than others.

Whilst religion needs all kinds of approaches to tackle it, I think for us as an activist group, it might be more practical to try the Peter Boghossian method "to create atheists", as it doesn't require detailed knowledge of specifics and is also a non-confrontational, sincere way of trying to get through without being regarded as an attack on person's identity.
Agree.
Thanks for that Boghossain link by the way, I hadn't heard of him before. I would say a Boghossain method has been my default stance for a while now, something I've evolved towards as I've found it the most conducive to progress in ANY discussion.
I think having an opinion challenged, usually makes people agitated. I've found this results in them deliberately looking for things to get angry about, rather than seeking a dialectic. So if you present a logical train of thought, but leave in it something for them to grab at and get angry about, the majority will grab it, and disappear down a rabbit hole of parody and strawmen. If you've ever heard the cliche "So you think we should all just..." you may know what I mean.
When this happens, I find the discussion just becomes derailed, and you have to spend a long time reeling things back in to recover anything positive. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not­. ;-D
The WE not YOU thing, has been promoted in conflict resolution for a long time. I'd consider it a general principle WE should employ throughout OUR lives, even outside religious discussions, because the less conflict there is, the quicker results are achieved!

We're planning to get a small team of LAAGers together to practise it, and then try it out for real on August 25th,when we will have a LAAG group stand at SC. Actually I had already mentioned your name to the other organisers as one of the potential speakers...
Nice idea to get a LAAG stand, be happy to come and provide any support I can. However I get the impression soapboxing and crowds harranging require skills somewhat different from the Boghossain ones. Seems to me that rhetoric and a loud voice begin to play greater roles, and I honestly can't say i'm very strong on those fronts!
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