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New Meetup: Humanity+, UK 2011: Making a human difference

pleasuremodel
user 11185745
London, GB
Post #: 51
It was "more" fun when he was a fake bond villian.

At the end of the day we can thrust and parry over what Max really thinks but consider this.

All 17 year old boys like girls that are prehaps under the age of consent - But most don't write essays about it and then still credit it on their personal web pages when they are in their 40's. http://www.maxmore.co...­ (Look in the 1980’s)

I notice that Max More includes a plug for a book by George C Smith, registered mental health professional aka Nemo of the Temple of the Vampire pyramid scheme, on his promo page for Lucifer.

Then there was Mark Plus (another Extropian) with his comment:
"The perfect cryonics patient is a healthy ten year old who can walk into the lab and lie down on the table before the procedure."

“Lucifer is the embodiment of reason… Join me, join Lucifer…” – Max More.

On October 1, 2010, I attended the Transhumanism and Spirituality conference in Salt Lake City, Utah. At one point in the meeting, a current leader in the Transhuman movement – Max More – told us he was the “spawn of Lucifer.” At first I thought it was a bad joke.

Boy, was I wrong. - http://forcingchange....­
David W.
dw2cco
Group Organizer
London, GB
Post #: 72
Catching up with some of these earlier links:

Steve Blank also finds out some amazing stuff about the history of silicon valley's early days http://steveblank.com...­

That's a fine link - the info in it dovetails with what I've heard from other sources.

Greg Fish at http://worldofweirdth...­ is probably the best singularity skeptic blogger - who works on AI reserch amongst other futuristic things.

This is a good link too. He covers a lot of different topics - generally to my liking. For example, his essay "the subtle love-hate relationship with ray kurzweil" makes a lot of good points. In that essay, he expresses a lot of sympathy for what George Dvorsky has to say on the topic of Kurzweil's role within the broader S^ and H+ movements. I think George gets it right :-)

// David W.
pleasuremodel
user 11185745
London, GB
Post #: 52
I also found this book a wealth of early Silicon Valley History: http://www.ebook3000....­

Also - http://www.amazon.com...­

pleasuremodel
user 11185745
London, GB
Post #: 53
PUBLIC NOTICE FROM !JILL

(Please send to mailing lists David)

I have spoke to Max More about the Article he wrote.

My regrettable writing of almost 30 years past

"I appreciate your message. It's really hard for me to believe that anyone associated with Cryonicsfactsheet.com would give me a fair shake, but I'll take you at your word.

It's unfortunate that Ms. Maxim launched into a destructive attack (with a false headline) without bothering to check with me, knowing that I wrote that article when I was a *teenager*. I was a new, hardline radical libertarian -- something I haven't been for a long time. I was arrogant and enjoyed picking the most controversial issues to take contrary stands on. The initial motivation for the piece was to defend the free speech rights of the most unpopular people of all. If I'd stopped there, I would still be satisfied with the piece.

Unfortunately, in my foolish arrogance, I wrote about a topic that I was then too naive to properly understand. My notion of consent was poorly considered. Being generally trusting of people, I didn't appreciate just how badly so many people pursue their own desires without consideration for others.

I cannot unwrite that piece, I can only regret it, and repudiate the ideas I was exploring so early in my intellectual development. I intend to write a rebuttal to myself to be attached to the original, making it clear that I do not agree with my early article (and have not for a long long time).

Yes, I agree it was foolish to leave it listed on my webpage (which I am currently unable to edit). I had not actually read it in many years, and thought it was primarily a defense of free speech and a questioning of the validity of a universal age of consent (which, as I'm sure you're aware, varies around the world.) I was startled to read it again after Ms. Maxim's attack piece and see that my younger self had pushed the exploration of ideas much further and taken a wrong turn.


"Help us out here - At the moment the removal of the document makes you look like you have something to hide."

-- I asked the file to be removed because I have no obligation to further help anyone attempt to damage me, my family, and my associates. The file will be replaced after I have written a commentary explaining how my views have changed in the almost 30 years since I wrote it.

Best,

Max"


In further conversation Max has promised me he is going to make a public announcement about this matter. I want to go on record and say that however embarrassing and contrary I may seem I DO NOT think its fair that Max More is being taken out of context and being hauled over hot coals.

He said it right there - I was young, wrote something foolish and I wish I hadn't written it now.
Max is what I view a bit of a mad man - he loves to shock and can you imagine the young Max more taking this controversial argument to make a "name for himself" - Well I can - he only said he was the Devil to the Mormon Transhumanists a few months back!

But he is not guilty of harbouring strange morals about Age of consent - hes just a fruitcake who loves to shock - The young Max was even more shocking as we have recently found out.

Just think for a minute who is saying this - ME - I would love Max to be taken out of business for what I view as cryonics scams - But to label him with this is unnneccesary and NOT FAIR.

I have taken Cryonics Factsheet offline until Max makes his Public Announcement - I hope this shows everybody concerned that I am serious about this matter despite earlier posts/messages to the contrary.

Despite what people think I do check my stuff out and do post things which have evidence. In my mind this is not the same as other scandals - Max has done no wrong except being a arrogant idiot who left a article up he shouldn't. His only "crime" is people may have read that article and it influenced their thinking and for that I believe he is genuinely sorry.

Can everybody please give Max a break on this and attack him for stuff which he can defend - Sex crime allegations are a very serious matter and once made can be hard to remove even if its been proven you are not guilty.





David W.
dw2cco
Group Organizer
London, GB
Post #: 73
PUBLIC NOTICE FROM !JILL

...Can everybody please give Max a break on this and attack him for stuff which he can defend

Richie - thanks for posting this update. It confirms that you have a thoughtful, serious, responsible side - as well as the "angry young man" side that sometimes spills to the surface. (I admire that passion by the way. But as I've learned in my own life, sometimes you have to get the head to rule the heart, in order for the heart to truly flourish.)

As you say, we should give Max a bit of time and space. I'm sure he'll have lots of interesting things to say as he gets properly into his stride in his new role as Alcor CEO. And I'm sure you'll have lots of interesting things to say about cryonics at that time too :-)

As it happens, the preview video for H+UK 2011 that was released yesterday contains a short clip of Max speaking at H+UK 2010. The video was produced in three short days. The idea behind the video is to try to prompt more people to start thinking deeply about at least some of the questions listed. And - hopefully - to encourage more people to think about attending the H+UK 2011 event.
pleasuremodel
user 11185745
London, GB
Post #: 54

"Richie - thanks for posting this update. It confirms that you have a thoughtful, serious, responsible side - as well as the "angry young man" side that sometimes spills to the surface. (I admire that passion by the way. But as I've learned in my own life, sometimes you have to get the head to rule the heart, in order for the heart to truly flourish.)"

I think we finally understand each other - I am going to buy you your favourite drink next time we meet in the flesh to celebrate.

much love D
pleasuremodel
user 11185745
London, GB
Post #: 55
Max More will also be posting something official over the weekend

I hope to be pleasently suprised.
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