London Futurists Message Board Events/Meetups › New Meetup: Cryonics UK, One Year On - An update from David Styles

New Meetup: Cryonics UK, One Year On - An update from David Styles

David W.
dw2cco
Group Organizer
London, GB
Post #: 50
I've criticised Transhumanism for being teleological elsewhere, and Gaianism is a valid target for the same line of criticism.

In this area, you and I are agreed. I'm on record many times as seeing the mindset of "inevitabilism" as one of the main temptations which will prevent a desirable technology-rich future from coming to pass. Eg from here: "In the midst of great difficulties, we’ll no doubt be sorely tempted by six dangerous distractions. First is the idea that human progress is somehow inevitable, as if governed by some kind of cosmic law. Alas, I see nothing pre-determined. We need to become activists, rather than passive bystanders..."

I can only stand by my original criticisms, and agree with the European Parliament Science and Technology Options Assessment study, which said that Transhumanism is fringe scientists attempting to draw public dialogue and research funding away from more urgent issues.

Maybe - just maybe - this anti-innovation mindset near the heart of the EU is one reason why the most interesting technology innovation tends to happen in America.
Dirk B.
user 9941666
London, GB
Post #: 128
You have to face the facts that if anything is a good idea someone would have already done it somewhere else. QED.
Jonathan
Im-not-a-number
London, GB
Post #: 125
In this area, you and I are agreed. I'm on record many times as seeing the mindset of "inevitabilism" as one of the main temptations which will prevent a desirable technology-rich future from coming to pass.
That's interesting, because that "inevitabilism" seems to be a sense that I'm feeling too, although I'm hesitant in desiring any sort of activism regarding having gender eliminated, computers taking over the world or the promotion of New Agers masquerading behind a Greek goddess.

...the most interesting technology innovation tends to happen in America.
Interesting is a subjective word, since what interests you may not interest me, however, studying The World Economic Forum's Networked Readiness Index suggests that Sweden, Denmark and Switzerland are leading the way in ICT developments.

So, I'm guessing that past lack of bureaucracy in the States, encouraging entrepreneurialism, and developments at NASA bringing us all the side effect innovations that came out of the old US space programs are still sticking in people's minds.

However, in more recent times, if the level of headache that the US Government's ITAR program and allied regulations creates for me is reflected upon other people trying to do business with the States, then I very much doubt that they are going to maintain any sort of lead that they may currently be enjoying for very much longer.


@Dirk Ecclesiastes 1:9-14


A former member
Post #: 424
A better video on cryonics is this one J - http://video.google.c...­

3 Years old but I think its a good video on the subject if a little grisly!


My problem is simple - I think the Cryonics (alcor,cryonics uk etc) is a big con and people should not be allowed to take advantage of people by offering promises for money that they can't keep. If you watch the above video and see what goes on to that poor cancer victim - you can see its blatently fxxked up and these cryonics firms are ripping people off big time.
I think real Cryonics should be something THAT is practised bydoctors/scientists as a potential science. But until theres some kind of scientific proof and a "reincarnation" acheived then people should not be allowed to sell the concept to potentially vunerable people.

I am sorry if this upsets peoples "transhuman" beliefs but I have looked into this subject deeply and that is my conclusions.


Dirk B.
user 9941666
London, GB
Post #: 131
But until theres some kind of scientific proof and a "reincarnation" acheived then people should not be allowed to sell the concept to potentially vunerable people.
By the time cryogenic revival is possible there will be no need for it.
A former member
Post #: 427
What about "cold sleep" on long space missions or as a method for storing injured people if they are far from proper medical attention. Without proven methods that get rid of ice crystalisation, J's Calcium buildup then cryonics is worse than useless + if you watch the video you can see that currently cryonics "victims" are clinically dead when frozen and then the freezing process takes ages. Real doctors won't let cryonics volunteers go near the bodies till they are really sure the person is completely deviod of ANY living function we can detect by modern medicine. So I can't see how any future society is going to be able to fix that mess and no promise of hypothetical supernatrual technologies is going to change that!
I think that cryonics has a lot of potential if its done properly but at the moment I think its in the hands of "snake-oil" salesmen.
Come on if you had a few bucks to spare would you really TRUST a company like Alcor who have already accidently defrosted people and tried to sue familys who have tried to prevent them from freezing their relatives.
Tim Leary couldn't and I know i couldn't....
Dirk B.
user 9941666
London, GB
Post #: 134
http://arstechnica.co...­

"Around three years ago, we reported on a rather interesting brevia in Science, concerning the ability of hydrogen sulfide (H2S) to induce a stasis-like state in mice. In the current issue of Anesthesiology, a new study by an different lab (this time at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston) has reproduced the findings.

Hydrogen sulfide is a particularly foul-smelling gas, common to sewers and rotting eggs. We’re particularly good at smelling it—humans can detect H2S at concentrations as low as 0.005 ppm—possibly as an evolutionary response to the gas’ toxicity. So it’s therefore surprising that relatively low concentrations of H2S (below fatal levels, obviously) appear to have the ability to alter the resting physiology of mice.

As in the previous study, the report in Anesthesiology confirms that mice breathing 80 ppm H2S displayed a decrease in heart rate and cardiac output of around 50 percent, although stroke volume and mean arterial pressure were not affected. When the mice were breathing H2S at 27?C, their body temperature also fell, from 37.4?C to 29.3?C after 6 hours exposure, although when mice were exposed to H2S at 35?C, this drop in body temperature was absent. Respiratory rate also dropped, from a resting rate of around 120 breaths per minute down to 31 bpm. Oxygen consumption was also decreased. Interestingly, whole blood analysis did not reveal any major changes in pH, O2 or CO2 levels, or ions such as Na+, K+, Ca2+ or Mg2+.

However, before anyone gets too excited about their plans to stuff some scientists into cases with H2S in order to blast them—and a confused AI—off to Jupiter, it probably isn’t accurate to describe the mice as being in suspended animation. Although they stopped wandering around, they were still conscious and able to move in response to stimuli, and the gas showed no analgesic properties.

On the other hand, H2S could prove to have applications in emergency medicine and trauma cases, where it can be advantageous to slow down a patient’s metabolic rate to protect tissues and organs following blood loss or hypoxia. H2S is probably some years away from the clinic but, if it makes an appearance, you’ll almost certainly smell it. "
______________

Well, it's an easy experiment if anyone wants to try it.
No idea why it hasn't been tested in Humans - there are plenty of people who are crazy enough to try it.
Jonathan
Im-not-a-number
London, GB
Post #: 129
Perhaps this website will explain why...

As to Leary, the story goes that after giving Alcor lots of free publicity, they turned him away because they weren't too keen on a plan he had to commit suicide (on LSD), and broadcast the death-trip live on the internet. – They claimed they feared legal repercussions, but according to Leary, they "didn't have a sense of humour."

Leary then signed up with the offshoot CryoCare, but shortly before he died, he discovered some internal company memos that slandered him and exposed plans to exploit the situation to the benefit of CryoCare and the detriment of the Leary family. So, all plans were cancelled, and he ended up being cremated, and having some of his ashes launched into space instead.

A former member
Post #: 430
kicking and screaming thats the way to go!

BTW - the more I look into cryonics UK the more and more it looks like a scam which probaly should be closed down.

@ DAVID - REALITY CHECK - Sir I am sorry u you gotta stop promoting this stuff - Watchdog should/is/probably looking into this as we speak..... Just because people are sincere and believe in what they are doing does not mean its not a scam

PLEASE VISIT: http://www.cryonics-u...­ and actually read what this company offers for £15 a month (Thats £180 a year for the rest of you life which will probably go up with inflation)

So in the sound of Terry Tibbs (PhoneJacker ) here is a fun version of the Cryonics UK FAQ (MOST TEXT IS ACTUALLY FROM THEIR WEBSITE - except what I have added of course for artistic lescense!)

Ring Ring

TERRY - Cryonics for sale 15 a month - Talk to me
CRYONICS UK - Escuse me what exactly do you mean?

TERRY - Says here in the paper cryonics from £15 a month mate
CRYONICS UK - Oh you mean cryopreservation.

TERRY - OK sorry - I want to arrange to be cryopreserved. Where do I start?
CRYONICS UK - [With a cryonics service provider. British cryonicists tend to have signed up with either Alcor or CI (see Links tab to the left). You can contact them directly via their own websites. Additionally, if you want someone to walk you through it step by step, our own group Organiser will be more than happy to do so if you ask him (see Contact tab to the left).

TERRY How much does it cost?
CRYONICS UK - A cryonics contract itself can vary in price depending on one's cryonics service provider, and option chosen from said provider. It can be the equivalent of less than 50p a day for a very respectable deal. Even a homeless person could afford that!

TERRY- Unlikely mate, my familys been in the fishfinger business 42 years, human being frozen in our freezers cost £50-100K depending on the style of murder, but they do do installment plans now you say - so - How can I know it's not a scam?
CRYONICS UK - Cryonics has been around for over thirty years now; you can tour the facilities, visit the patients in cryostasis, etc.

TERRY - Kin ell, SERIOUSLY - what will they think of next eh so, How can I know that it works?
CRYONICS UK - You can't. You have a choice, though: you can try it, and maybe live and maybe die. Or you can not try it, and definitely die

TERRY - So If you're not a cryonics service provider thingamujibs , what do you do exactly?
CRYONICS UK - We are Britain's volunteer "Standby Assistance" team. We will accept into membership anyone who has a suspension contract with a provider. These members can then attend training to become part of the Standby Assistance team when qualified, and / or can pay a small fee to receive Standby Assistance without themselves being on the team.

TERRY - So What exactly is this "Standby Assistance"?
CRYONICS UK - It's said that a friend will help you move, but a true friend will help you move a body. That's part of what we do. If you are dying, we will arrive on the scene with equipment ready to get started as soon as you are clinically dead. We will attend to the administration of various medicines and intravenous fluids, and the initial cooldown, and in all ways prepare your body physically for shipping to your cryonics provider perfused with cryoprotectants and kept at a low temperature with dry ice. This is much better than you than dying and then having to cool yourself down, stop your own blood from congealing, and make your own way to the other side of the world.

TERRY - So mate its £50K at 50p (age dependant) a day from the ALCOR gamble, then £15 a month to you + I gotta go to to training sessions and learn how to handle dead bodies.
CRYONICS UK - Erm Yes.

TERRY - And this will garuntee that I definitly will not Die
CRYONICS UK - Er No - as i said - You can't. You have a choice, though: you can try it, and maybe live and maybe die. Or you can not try it, and definitely die

TERRY - But you said I won't die
CRYONICS UK - Er not quite - what I meant was that if you opt for a lower cost cremation or burial you will be 100% dead forever, but if we freeze you you can possibly live forever but we are talking a very small chance.

TERRY - How small
CRYONICS UK - erm its more than zero

TERRY - Well in that case you better sign me up old son



BUSTED - Cryonics uk is pretty much like paying for a psychic or crystal therapy at best - at worst its some kind of weird lifetime con scheme and somethings definitly going on here which shouldn't.
Questions that terry should of asked and should be on the FAQ -1. If you decide to opt out of cryonics at a later date do your monthly installments get returned to you?
2. If you miss payments am I still covered or do you hold it against me till i make back payment?
3. Do my family get refunded/compensated if your "trained staff" mess up my temp freeze?
4. What compensation do you pay out on messing up my small chance of being revived?
5. How much will my payments rise over the years in line with inflation?
6. I'm 33 and could end up paying for this for 50-60 years - do i get discounts for lifetime membership?

This is looking bad...wonder if they will reply to this e-mail...
A former member
Post #: 431
sorry all but this has actually made me quite angry and determined to do something about it - Gut feeling is telling me that this is something that should be exposed as a con and refunds given back. I know you can't stop people believing in stuff that isn;t tru and even paying a lot for it but that don't make it right.
If Im wrong i'm wrong but I am asking some people I know to look into this and If cryonics uk is a scam its gonna get some exposure it doesn;t like.

cryingangry

Don;t any of you ever watch Penn and Teller BS - they done a exposure on a similar firm in the US on there TV show if i recall. Seems like we British are slowly catching up to the yanks again so much for being futuristic.....

ALCOR/FROZEN: http://www.youtube.co...­

PENN AND TELLER - http://www.yougoggle....­
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