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Cryonics "Fact" Sheet

Luke Parrish
user 12604681
Salem, OR
Post #: 13
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http://www.cryonicsfa...­

In recent years the "cult" of cryonic preservation has been gaining a lot of popularity and the salesmen of this inhuman practice have been enjoying a shift in public perception and are being taken seriously in some quarters. This websites aim is purely factual information about this scam and how to avoid being taken in by it. If, you or a family member is seriously considering cryonic preservation then please use this webiste and its links to make a informed decision. If you are being pressured or feel that you have been ripped off by one of these firms we would love to hear from you and help in any way we can.

So Richie, have the cryonics salesmen been pestering you?

I really can't comprehend your motives here. Why would you want to talk potential cryonicists out of making the decision that could save their lives?
A former member
Post #: 505
Ask Jill

Her e-mail is thepleasuremodel(at)gmail.com

I am not dealing with Cryonics anymore as it makes me too angry - Jill has taken matters into her own "hands" and has made a rather lurid website showing the scam of cryonics but she does say "One thing we want to make clear is that this Website is not against the concept of Cryonics which may have some scientific merit one day. What we are against is the selling of pesudo-scientific alternative "therapys" being sold with no garuntees. Cryonic preservation is not illlegal and its up to YOU what you do with your body after death - but is it right that cryonics enthusiasts can charge small fortunes for false promises? We think not!"

Dirk Bruere
user 9941666
London, GB
Post #: 236
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"Cryonic preservation needs to be a proven science before it can be sold to do so as people are as present is blatently ripping vunerable people off."

By the time it is proven to work it will not be needed, given that it is the hardest medical procedure imaginable.
Luke Parrish
user 12604681
Salem, OR
Post #: 14
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Ask Jill

Her e-mail is thepleasuremodel(at)gmail.com

I am not dealing with Cryonics anymore as it makes me too angry - Jill has taken matters into her own "hands" and has made a rather lurid website showing the scam of cryonics but she does say "One thing we want to make clear is that this Website is not against the concept of Cryonics which may have some scientific merit one day. What we are against is the selling of pesudo-scientific alternative "therapys" being sold with no garuntees. Cryonic preservation is not illlegal and its up to YOU what you do with your body after death - but is it right that cryonics enthusiasts can charge small fortunes for false promises? We think not!"


Not taking it to private email right now since "Jill" decided to make it public. Maybe later. She can always reply here though wink

Jill, why do you think cryonics needs a guarantee in order not to be a scam?

(BTW I am glad she at least states that it isn't illegal and people have the right to do what they want with their own bodies.)
A former member
Post #: 506
A shill is a person who is paid to help another person or organization to sell goods or services. The shill pretends to have no association with the seller/group and gives onlookers the impression that he or she is an enthusiastic customer. The person or group that hires the shill is using crowd psychology, to encourage other onlookers or audience members (who are unaware of the set-up) to purchase the said goods or services. Shills are often employed by confidence artists. The term plant is also used.
Jonathan
Im-not-a-number
London, GB
Post #: 215
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Methinks you've spent too much time with Wikipaedia, since you seem to be describing a claque, rather than a shill.

Typically, a shill takes part in an elaborate swindling operation, and is usually committing a criminal offence - such as an associate of the seller bidding up prices in an auction, with no intention to buy the lot; or the decoy players of a dishonest gambling establishment, where the mark is lead to believe that he can make big winnings, by following the actions of the aforementioned shill players. If someone were to go about claiming they had been cryonically resurrected, then that person would be a shill.

A claque on the other hand is an organized group that bands together to applaud a performance, and thereby attempt to influence the audience to believe that it is better than it actually is - usually after receiving payment from the actors, or free tickets etc. from the management. This reached its height in 19th century France, where as well as clapping and cheering at operas and other theatrical events, some claques would memorize the better parts of the performances and call their neighbours' attention to them. This seems rather closer to the actions of Cryonics advocates here.

Regardless, a better example is noted by the Psychologist Robert Cialdini, who tells of the Keech cult:

Mrs. Keech, though, was the centre of attention and activity. Earlier in the year she had begun to receive messages from spiritual beings... The transmissions from the Guardians, always the subjects of much discussion and interpretation among the group, gained new significance when they began to foretell a great impending disaster - a flood that would begin in the Western Hemisphere and eventually engulf the world... The crucial event occurred sometime during "the night of the flood", when it became increasingly clear that the prophecy would not be fulfilled. Oddly, it was not their prior certainty that drove the members to propagate the faith; it was an encroaching sense of uncertainty... So massive was the commitment to their beliefs that no other truth was tolerable. Yet that set of beliefs had just taken a merciless pounding from physical reality: No saucer had landed, no spacemen had knocked, no flood had come, nothing had happened as prophesied. Since the only acceptable form of truth had been undercut by physical proof, there was but one way out of the corner for the group. They had to establish another type of proof for the validity of their beliefs: social proof.

Eventually, another message by was sent to Keech, which stated, in effect, that the planet had been spared from destruction and the cataclysm averted - "The little group, sitting all night long, had spread so much light that the Guardians had saved the world from destruction".

A former member
Post #: 507
good to have you back pal - was worried you had left us (did i go too far again?)

Luke Parrish is bothering me - he seems to be a( or un?)official PR person for cryonics or the venturists i can't decide which. Why a 26 year old from Idaho is interested in our wacky group based in London is a mystery - unless he is disturbed by my skeptical view of cryonics which he keeps refereing too on various forums not just this one.

anyhow good to see you back being prickly and setting me straight - i really need it!

Luke Parrish
user 12604681
Salem, OR
Post #: 15
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good to have you back pal - was worried you had left us (did i go too far again?)

Luke Parrish is bothering me - he seems to be a( or un?)official PR person for cryonics or the venturists i can't decide which. Why a 26 year old from Idaho is interested in our wacky group based in London is a mystery - unless he is disturbed by my skeptical view of cryonics which he keeps refereing too on various forums not just this one.

anyhow good to see you back being prickly and setting me straight - i really need it!


Richie, this is just plain weird. I haven't been bothering you. You are the one that launched into cryonics as a "scam". I've been defending it and you haven't even been replying. You seem to think accusations alone are enough to establish that someone is in the wrong. You won't defend your allegations like an honest skeptic would. Rather you apparently think questioning my motives is the proper way to go.

Fact is I do this for fun (if you can call it that) and not profit. I am not employed at any cryonics organization. (I do tech support, and I'm darned good at it.) Heck I haven't even signed up with any of them. Maybe you aren't capable of understanding my motives (i.e. wanting to save lives), but if that's the case it's your problem and not mine.

I found this site from a link on Paul Crowley's blog. You guys were dissing Roko, who I knew from Less Wrong, and attacking Ben Best's presentation as not having enough information. Fact is, cryonics isn't even talked about much on the web. I tend to step in whenever it is (I even have a Google Alert) because I know someone's going to be spreading misinformation and stupidity about ice crystal formation and cryonics being some kind of for-profit greedy scam because who could possibly willingly and with forethought want to bet their resources on the possibility that someday we'll have better technology for repairing tissues than we have today.

I'm annoyed. By the apathy, by the ignorance, and by the stupid conspiracy theories. And I feel justified in hounding anyone who continues this idiocy. If you want me to stop, it falls to you to exhibit actual informed skepticism on the matter. Or else just shut up and I'll leave you alone. Gladly.
A former member
Post #: 515
OK this is a complete waste of my time but as !jill is so concerned about you I have to do this:

Paul Crowley
The very same Paul Crowley that I supect you and a few other "recruited" and is now paying money to CI I believe for his cryonic suspension - I actually like Paul (he is in this group and has come to my meetings as well as doing quality presentations himself). he is a damn nice intelligent fella and it puzzles me that he is taken in by the cryonic marketing scams but being as he likes gothic stuff and does spend a lot of time in the pro-cryonics world maybe it shouldn't suprise me

We dissed Roko - because he was being unscientific! note how we did not critisise Paul Crowleys presentation so harshly because Pauls was actually based in scientific fact not a "agenda". Roko is a perfect example of a "whacky" scientist who lives in a stange world which demands goverment money (my money my taxes) to research wildcard futurology claims. His assumptions were not based on "how to think rationally about the future" they were based on rather more fanciful claims like longevity escape velocity, Super AI and of course cryonic preservation. Some of us felt that he stepped the line and used parlour tricks (NLP) to get his point across - But apart from that any dissing was not related to him or his personality - just his presentation and his "wacky" conclusions. Roko's younger than me and I know what its like to feel like you are the one of the only rational voice in your generation but thats close to crankdom and he needs to chill out and stop trying to be Futurist and get some life experience under his belt before attempting to predict the future again. You may notice that I don;t try and predict teh future for exactly those reasons - I tried and soon realised that I just need to know more about history and futurology before I can do it properly. Which is why I practice skeptism and trying to work out why the older futurists have made these conclusions and why I think they are bullshit. Hence This Website and forum - Or I would of just joined extrabritannia and agreed with everything.

It's interesting that you feel the need to "step" in and defend cryonics despite claims of not being paid or being employed by a cryonics organisation. Don;t you think that borders along the lines of obsession?
You say you work in Tech support and are just interested because you want to "save lives" - Well thats real nice but it doesn't make you a authority on cryonics in fact its arguable that somebody who works in tech support even understands what the cryonicists do. They Get Dead People DRain them of Blood, pump them full of antifreeze and store them in liquid nitrogen - What has this got to do with "saving lives" - If you feel so strongly about human life you should change your career and get a job as a fireman - Those guys save lives everyday and its reputed they get a lot of pussy too as a side benefit.

This is why Jill is worried about people liek you - young people shouldn;t be obsessed with death and helping to promote cryonics for the next generation for people like: Ettinger, Ben Best, Bill Faloon , Jim Yount and Whack Job Saul Kent - These people are just concerned that the cryonics industry will die when they do - so they are spending a lot of money time and effort to "keeping the dream alive". Did they not recently organise a subsidesed meeting and fly 80 teens/twenties (including David Styles) for a "brainwashing weekend" fueled by alchohol , procryonics talks/presentations and Bill Faloons "antioxidents"?
Since then I and a few others have noticed a lot of "young cryonicists" come out of the woodwork to defend cryonics - a Skeptical person might say that you were "recruited" at this meeting and are now "employed" to carry on their work. I just hope you got something out of it instead of simply just the promise that you will definetly get access to their cryonics facilities. Its worth noting that people that train suicide bombers also use similar tactics to recruit young people to commit atrocities. "the Future (afterlife) is better than now so support our cause to garuntee your access to it"

I said this before somewhere else that there is no such thing as a anti-cryonicist - you either believe in cryonics and have joined these cult-like organisations and paid shitloads of money to become one - or your skeptical it will ever work and condemn the organisations selling exotic funerals in the guise of alternative therapies. Or you simply just don;t give a shit - Well i do give a shit and while I might not think cryonics works - It doesn;t make me a anti-cryonicist it makes me a skeptic who demands proof before it can be sold - which is why Cryonics companies in the very least should be regulated and run by medical scientists not enthusiastic self-help groups which use rather dubious methods to "recruit" people for experimentaion and then charge them for the pleasure!

This is not "misinformation" or even opinion its actually the sad fact - cryonics is Bullshit - This is what happens when you let cults/enthusiasts sell pesudo-science - The problem is that while these dodgy organisations are running it could damage NOBLE sciences like human organ preservation and cryobiology. David Styles's organisation even has a fake charity called (as you are well aware)Human Organ Preservation Research Trust - That is misselling his organisation could of just as easily called it Cryonics UK Trust or even UK standby Trust - But they didnt they are pretending to be a charity that support cryobiology and I suspect as others do as its a front to launder donations.
I can't prove it without seeing the documentation but its not like they publically post the documents up - so its probable they have something to hide. As a result its probable that oublic opinion may change on REAL human organ preservation because some wacky self help group misrepresented themselves. !jills website only points to facts already stated on other parts of the internet and her opinion of what these things mean.

On skeptism and cryonics - A skeptic doesnt say - "there is nothing you can say to convince me" he says " Convince me - i demand proof" - Well cryonics hasn't provided any proof in concept and certainly not in practice - so to sell it is like me selling you a lion proof feather - You know a feather can't keep lions away but I tell you what I sure havent seen any Lions in my street so would like to buy my feather it will only cost you $100,000 and it could save your life! You are not going to buy that feather are you beacuse you know that Lions are not Native to London Streets and I am trying to rip you off. You would then be quite right to also demand proof by making me stand close to a uncaged lion with my waving feather and see if the lion turns away or eats me - That is the skeptism I practice - I do look at the facts before making conclusions - even if my view may be warped to somebody who has a opposite perspective on something.

This is the last time i will talk to you on this forum about this subject - you wanna talk about the FUTURE you are more than welcome. Alternativly if you want to discuss cryonics skeptically go to the rickross
Paul Crowley
ciphergoth
London, GB
Post #: 2
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Wow, are my ears burning? Glad you think of me as a "damn nice intelligent fella" but it's strange to me that someone who's seen my blog posts on cryonics could imagine me as some unfortunate dupe of the cryonics marketing scams.
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