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London Futurists Message Board London Futurists General Discussion Forum › Cryonics "Fact" Sheet

Cryonics "Fact" Sheet

Luke P.
user 12604681
Salem, OR
Post #: 17
I said this before somewhere else that there is no such thing as a anti-cryonicist - you either believe in cryonics and have joined these cult-like organisations and paid shitloads of money to become one - or your skeptical it will ever work and condemn the organisations selling exotic funerals in the guise of alternative therapies. Or you simply just don;t give a shit - Well i do give a shit and while I might not think cryonics works - It doesn;t make me a anti-cryonicist it makes me a skeptic who demands proof before it can be sold - which is why Cryonics companies in the very least should be regulated and run by medical scientists not enthusiastic self-help groups which use rather dubious methods to "recruit" people for experimentaion and then charge them for the pleasure!

I believe in cryonics and have not joined any organization, nor paid any money. My investment is mainly ideological at this point. I think this should be pursued. Neural cryobiology research, end of life options in regular hospitals, etc. And I resent interference from idiots who think they can assume that just because nobody has been reanimated from a given state implies nobody could be reanimated from such a state. Presuming death until life is proven is in this context rather like presuming guilt until innocence is proven.

This is the last time i will talk to you on this forum about this subject - you wanna talk about the FUTURE you are more than welcome. Alternativly if you want to discuss cryonics skeptically go to the rickross

I'm not interested in going to rickross, a place where they ban dissenters and gossip about cryonics in the most bizarre fashion imaginable. Talk about "social proof" validation. I don't want any part of it. This forum seems much more reasonable and neutral. If you prefer another forum, the Cold Filter should be fine (though it is somewhat moderated).

The problem is that while these dodgy organisations are running it could damage NOBLE sciences like human organ preservation and cryobiology. David Styles's organisation even has a fake charity called (as you are well aware)Human Organ Preservation Research Trust

I'd never heard of it, oddly enough. I've only visited the cryonics UK website a few times, and haven't looked in close detail at every organizational detail of theirs.

- That is misselling his organisation could of just as easily called it Cryonics UK Trust or even UK standby Trust - But they didnt they are pretending to be a charity that support cryobiology and I suspect as others do as its a front to launder donations.

Are you saying they don't support cryobiology?

I can't prove it without seeing the documentation but its not like they publically post the documents up - so its probable they have something to hide. As a result its probable that oublic opinion may change on REAL human organ preservation because some wacky self help group misrepresented themselves.

This is what is known as a conspiracy theory. You take a group that you are afraid of and invent a story about them committing a horrible crime, but which is impossible for you to prove. Then you say "well this is just my opinion" blah blah blah whenever challenged on it. Why is it "probable" that they have something to hide? What privileges that hypothesis?

I think you've been the victim of social proof here. You think that because you've found a group of people (the rickross forum) who think there's something fishy about everything in cryonics that it supports the notion logically somehow. But it doesn't. It's just run of the mill conspiracy theorists trying to dig up dirt on a group they hate and/or fear.

The motives of cryonicists are in fact very straightforward and honest. It's just a group of people that don't particularly want to die, and are willing to expend some modest effort on avoiding unnecessary death via scientifically plausible mechanisms. Your speculations about financial scams are unnecessary to explain the facts.
pleasuremodel
user 11185745
London, GB
Post #: 8
@ Luke Parrish - LEAVE RICHIE ALONE he said he didnt want to discuss it and if you want to debate e-mail me - hes only sticking up for me Luke - Your last mesage has finally convinced me that you are not being honest about who you are and you are spreading a lot of disinformation around the web trying to discredit Richie and me - you have asked for it "luke" i suggest you read our website on its next publish cos you are gonna get unmasked and people are going to know who you really are!

@ LONDON FUTURISTS - -Cryonics UK are Blatently misrepresenting themselves there is no conspiracy theory the information is right on their HOMEPAGE - They say they are a self help group but use a Banking Service which is normally reserved for charitys and ask their members to put funds into there Charity account. They call this Charity: The Human Organ Preservation Research Trust but search for this Charity in Google and you won;t find a homepage you would think that a charity like that would have at least its own webpage or a office somewhere? - This is obviously mis-representation they could of called their account Cryonics UK like their organisation but somebody (at Cryonics UK) has decided that The Human Organ Preservation Trust sounds sexier and like they do something other than desecrate human remains and put them on dry ice. Watchdog really need to get onto this - or any other of you media bods who I know read our site (Ian you still with us?)

@ Paul Crowley - Could you send us scans of the Documents you had to sign to arrange your future cryonic preservation with CI? The legal eagle at Cryonics Factsheet would love to get a look at some genuine documents - for some reason cryonics enthusiasts are reluctant to post them and we have heard that they ask you to deny autopsies on religous grounds, sign over your estate for your reanimation and other rumours - he would like to see if thats true.
We really wish you hadn't signed up - it looks like several groups of people are now activley involved in exposing these companies (not just us) as the Scams they are and we prophercise that they are soon to become regulated and the worst closed down. We strongly suggest you try and cancel your contract and get some legal advice in getting your money back before its too late.

!Jill
Luke P.
user 12604681
Salem, OR
Post #: 18
@ Luke Parrish - LEAVE RICHIE ALONE he said he didnt want to discuss it and if you want to debate e-mail me - hes only sticking up for me Luke - Your last mesage has finally convinced me that you are not being honest about who you are and you are spreading a lot of disinformation around the web trying to discredit Richie and me - you have asked for it "luke" i suggest you read our website on its next publish cos you are gonna get unmasked and people are going to know who you really are!

What is my name supposed to be then? This is getting bizarre. If you are convinced that I'm not Luke Parrish based on evidence given, it really tells us something about your problem solving heuristics. I recommend you get Richie or some competent AI programmer to look them over. tongue

Anyway drop the BS about being two different people. It's ok (and even mildly funny) to post only as !Jill for cryonics stuff, but please be consistent about it and please quit talking about yourself in third person. Unless you really have DID. You can stand up for yourself, but please give logical justifications for your conclusions.

Instead of accusing me of spreading disinformation, why not simply tell us what the correct information is?

I didn't start this thread to debate you, I started it to hold you somewhat accountable regarding something very iffy you are doing. This might be the "kewl" thing to do in the rickross group but I don't think most normal people consider it reasonable to level conspiracy and scam accusations without reasonable evidence.
A former member
Post #: 3
you have asked for it "luke" i suggest you read our website on its next publish cos you are gonna get unmasked and people are going to know who you really are!

This is way over the line - shades of the way the Scientologists try to intimidate their critics. Let's talk about the issues at stake without threatening each other, please.

@ Paul Crowley - Could you send us scans of the Documents you had to sign to arrange your future cryonic preservation with CI?

All the documents are here.
A former member
Post #: 520
lol - it is funny that is why i am doing it and you know overkill/over the line is my style - I don;t think Luke is a real person i think he is a "disinformation agent" possibly even Charles Platt the writer or another propaganda writer for the Cryonics movement (its rumoured that Platt argues with himself a lot on the internet). The writing styles are very similar - Its funny watching two figments of imagination argue with each other - i have seen this before on Ufology forums with Richard Doty.

Wait a Minute Are you Richard Doty Luke? - its no good questioning my Sanity (again) - i have got a certificate


LOL

BTW - I am proud to "not be normal" - Normal people suck - Whats your excuse?

biggrin

Luke P.
user 12604681
Salem, OR
Post #: 19
lol - it is funny that is why i am doing it and you know overkill/over the line is my style
Are you trying to communicate that you are a sociopath? Here I thought I was dealing with someone who was merely upset and reacting to an imaginary enemy. If you really aren't sincere to begin with, I suppose the safest thing to do is ignore you.

I don;t think Luke is a real person i think he is a "disinformation agent" possibly even Charles Platt the writer or another propaganda writer for the Cryonics movement
It's a huge complement to be compared to a professional writer and all that, but no. I'm real. And if anyone's sowing disinformation at the moment it is you.

its rumoured that Platt argues with himself a lot on the internet
You seem to have a tendency to believe rumors rather uncritically.

BTW - I am proud to "not be normal" - Normal people suck - Whats your excuse?
I'm not clear on what you are getting at here. Are you "accusing" me of being "normal"? If so, please define the term first then I'll decide whether I match the description. Because I think I'm normal in the sense of frowning on such things as baseless accusations, intimidation tactics, and mind games. I don't think people who frown on such things suck.
A former member
Post #: 522
oh yawn - grow some balls boyo - this is all a "game" to me, so stop taking yourself so seriously - who do you think you are now Luke Skywalker here to protect the Cryonics Industry from scandal with your purple light sabre of rationality. If your really Luke Parrish a concerned 26 IT technician year old form Idahao then Your being Obsessive - who cares who you really are (i really don't) - this is just the internet and you are being served up on a forum (for slightly crazy people who like the future) by a chef with a attitude problem - tongue LOL can;t you see how laughable that is? You put what you think is my name and workplace on the internet and try and psychoanalyse me on forum posts well i am going to save you the bother:

Everybody (well here and on rickross forum) knows that i am just some chav who likes pretending hes a robot and speaking in the 3rd person. Who just happens to have a strong opinion on cryonics (and ay other things) and has made his very own conspiracy website which is nothing more than a joke - Its a cut and paste job from many other websites with a slice of opinion - anyone can make any website about anything on the interenet doesnt mean its true or is taken seriously. I am sure nobody who is in the cryonics industry is that perturbed, Paul Crowley certainly isn;t - he probably thinks its quite funny that I am wasting so much energy on this - he also looked into the scam side decided there was none and signed up - Hes even prepared to send me the documents he signed to see if I can find any scam or make up a funny one - I reckon the cryonics people are probably working out how to use this as publicity (cryonicsfactsheet) for themselves.

As the saying goes, there's "no such thing as bad publicity". The reasoning is that even if people are trying to raise a big stink about how some work is immoral, incorrect, offensive, or corrupting the youth of the world, they're still giving it attention and increasing how well-known it is.

And yes i do appreciate the irony


Luke P.
user 12604681
Salem, OR
Post #: 20
this is all a "game" to me, so stop taking yourself so seriously

Why don't you take the idea of cryonics seriously?
A former member
Post #: 4
I am sure nobody who is in the cryonics industry is that perturbed, Paul Crowley certainly isn;t
For the record, no, I think it's incredibly unethical to call hard-working people like David Styles scam merchants without a shred of evidence. I'm glad you think of me as a nice fella, I've enjoyed meeting you and I've thought of you as a nice fella, but this is a pretty nasty act.

You might consider working with my friend David Gerard. Like you, he takes a strongly anti-cryonics position and he's largely responsible for the RationalWiki page on cryonics, but he doesn't go around baselessly accusing people of being con artists; his position seems to be that we're all honestly deluded. If that were your position I could have a lot more respect for it.

In any case, I hope you'll reconsider and do the right thing by removing those accusations you can't substantiate.
A former member
Post #: 525
Tell David Gerard to send me an e-mail - I like his page (hell I plagurised it) and if he wants to help me make things more fact based - id be keen on his help.

In the meantime - I think David Styles is big enough to handle his more tabloidey style critics he has already used British Media to promote cryonics and his self help group. He is also doing rather well for himself out of all this and has lots of support from US Cryonicists who help him arrange his LAGT seminars:

The event (from Cryonics UK)

"Cryonics UK European Exposition
with Saul Kent + Catherine Baldwin
Thursday, September 23, 2010 • 12:00pm - 6:00pm, Sheffield • function room at the Sheffield Park Hotel


Cryonics UK exposition / European workshop with some very noteworthy guests from America who wish to meet as many cryonicists (especially Europeans) as possible at this event.

Catherine Baldwin (General Manager, Suspended Animation, Inc.) and Saul Kent (CEO, Suspended Animation, Inc.; Director, Alcor; Co-Founder, Cryonics Society of New York; Co-Founder, Life Extension Foundation; Co-Founder and Director, 21st Century Medicine; Co-Founder and Director, BioMarker Pharmaceuticals; Co-Founder, Timeship Project) will be in attendance, and are looking forward to meeting as many European cryonicists as possible while here.

On this day, we will mostly not be at our usual location, our HQ, but nearby in a hired function room at the Sheffield Park Hotel, a pleasant four star venue around the corner from our HQ. The day will however also include a brief tour of our HQ.

The purpose of the event is severalfold; to allow European cryonicists to meet and ask questions of Saul and Catherine, and also to allow Saul and Catherine to get to know a little better what we do over here and how we do it.

To this end, there will be open discussion time, some short structured presentations (Cryonics UK training, Cryonics in Europe, etc), a tour of our clinic and ambulance, and some social element too.

Attendance is free of charge, as the costs of the event (venue and catering) will be paid by kind sponsorship from Suspended Animation Inc.

In the words of Anticult (poster on Rick Ross):

The American cryonics salesmen are using the same advanced sales techniques as the Large Group Awareness Training (LGAT) seminars. Now they are taking it to the UK, looking for fresh hunting grounds.
[www.skepdic.com]
Also search Google for the word:
LGAT

They are booking hotel ballrooms and offering a "free introduction".
All that means is they want to get the FISH into the NET.

Here is a psychic prediction. At this event, they will find the cryonics salespeople at the back of the room with complex cryonics contracts they are going to try to get people to sign ON THE SPOT.

They are now using the sophisticated techniques of the LGAT seminar, to draw people in, and then slowly persuade and indoctrinate them, and get them to sign complex contracts, and then upsell them to more "services".
They have dozens of sales techniques, from soft to hard.
The soft sell, might get people to commit to $30 a month, or sign a "small" insurance contract.
The hard sell, if they find a big FISH, will be to push the "irrevocable trust" that people can't get out of.

So the cryonics salespeople hook the FISH with a little bait, and then real them in. Hook them with a few bucks a month, then slowly upsell them. If they are juicy fish, they push for Power of Attorney and to take over their entire Estate, and get them to hand over their entire Estate to the cryonics company in a laughable "trust".

Yes, you can "trust" that once you are dead dead dead, and they have your former Estates assets, you can trust that its game over. They can do anything they want with your former money, as you a legally dead, and you gave them all your (former) money.
They can buy hot-tubs with your money, and take "cryonics business trips" to tropical "tourist" sites overseas.
They can hire their buddies to do "research" at 15x market value.
Heck, they could probably buy hot-tubs, and then write them off as "the effects of prolonged hot-water on human skin experiments". Or the "effects of large amounts of alcohol in tropical locations used in the human body experiments".

Of course 99% of people know this, and see the scam.
But there are a few "suckers" out there, that every LGAT sales system hunts for.

The "financial" aspects of the "cryonics" companies, are simply another in a long long line of scams to liberate people from their money.

Now they are trying it in the UK, where they want people's money, for what? So they can (at best) ship a decaying corpse overseas, after weeks or months, if ever?

Its amazing that those who are blinded by dreams of immortality, cannot see the brazen common cryonics scam being done right out in the open.

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