Re: [ljc] Why Java?

From: Craig S.
Sent on: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:41 AM
Michael, I'm fairly sure that Facebook's idea of scaling up PHP was to just transform it all to C++[1].

The hate of PHP is probably due to the quality of programmer you regularly come across in PHP communities and projects. PHP has a very low barrier to entry and as a result it has some pretty bad programmers (but also some really good ones). To be fair though, I've seen really bad Java, C and just about any other language you care to think of. It's just easy to point at PHP programmers as the champions of bad style and design whether justified or not.

Back on the Java topic. I went with Java as it seemed to be the language of choice across a lot of big and important projects that keep the country, economy and world ticking over. I like ubiquity and Java is ubiquitous which means I can become an expert in Java and related technologies and never have to worry about finding well paid and meaningful work (until a Java killer is on the horizon). This doesn't mean that I don't learn other things though, I just think from an employment, money and size of market perspective that Java is the place to be.

Plus, the JVM is an incredibly interesting and sophisticated platform that embraces all the freedom, interoperable, open source and technically rigorous values that I hold as an engineer.


On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Michael Kimsal <[address removed]> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Luke Daley <[address removed]> wrote:

On 26/06/2012, at 4:14 AM, Jon Hatfield <[address removed]> wrote:

I think java is about the right level of complexity, c is too 'hardcore' for many needs, unless you work on operating systems or embedded machinery, and php is too lame (I hate php) and favoured by web designers cos their small brains can handle it (I'm a bit bitter and twisted when it comes to php people calling themselves 'programmers')

So Facebook don't employ programmers?

Similar sentiment here, and I've grown tired of people 'hating' a language.  I'm bitter and twisted about having dealt with people's annotated FactoryFactory classes and recompile everything for 20 seconds to test out minor changes.  But hey... "java isn't like *that*!", right?

Having done PHP for 16 years, I've seen it grow from almost nothing to a world-dominant platform.  It gets a lot of things right from a pragmatic productivity perspective.  It gets a lot wrong too.  You can write clean structured code in it - if anything, many of the modern PHP frameworks are adopting JEE-level complexity in terms of configuration, while frameworks like Grails and Play are trying to reduce configuration and development effort in Javaland.  

PHP can scale both up and down quite nicely - facebook on the high end, and personal installs of blog engines running in tiny shared hosting accounts on the low end.  Java has never scaled down nicely (shared hosting is rare due to the necessary complex configuration requirements, as well as RAM requirements), and has similar issues we all face when scaling up (hardware, database issues, caching, etc).  

So... be bitter and twisted about something else.  PHP has nothing to prove to you or anyone else.  
Michael Kimsal

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