Re: [ljc] University vs Real Life Industry Work

From: user 8.
Sent on: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:30 AM
Most don't

Richard Gomes
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On 29/06/12 10:15, Martijn Verburg wrote:
> Not if you're doing it right ;-)
>
> On 29 June[masked]:54, Richard Gomes<[address removed]>  wrote:
>> Agile lacks long term planning.
>>
>> Richard Gomes
>> mobile : [masked]
>> twitter: frgomes
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>> Skype: dial skype2ippi           then dial[masked] when prompted.
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>>
>> On 29/06/12 06:25, John Summers wrote:
>>
>> Interesting point, Alexander.
>>
>> Everything seems so pro-Agile in the industry these days that nobody seems
>> brave enough to nail their counterpoint to the cathedral doors.
>>
>> Sadly the second-last experience I had of Agile was quite unpleasant. It was
>> warped into a mechanism to micro-manage and interfere with developers. The
>> daily stand-up turned into an hour-long meeting (yes, per day) where the
>> project manager would grill everyone and ask for precise breakdowns of what
>> they had done and what they would "commit" to getting done that day.
>>
>> The workrate was based off 8 hours per day of work. Of course forgetting
>> that the meeting alone took 7. Also forgetting that developers need to do
>> such things as:
>>
>> help their team mates
>> talk to their team mates (yes, actually have conversations and build
>> relationships)
>> respond to huge volumes of emails (which easily could take an hour a day)
>> respond to occasional production support calls
>> go get a coffee
>> eat snacks
>> take a dump
>>
>>
>> When we suggested that the *true* workrate per day was in fact more like 5
>> hours the manager went purple and started ranting. "You are PAID FOR EIGHT
>> HOURS WORK!!" he would scream.
>>
>> The end result was a sad state of affairs divided into two phases. In the
>> first phase developers went cut-throat and would not help each other for
>> fear of losing time, thus tasks in general took a lot longer and the net
>> result across the team was everything took twice as long. In the second
>> phase we all learned to simply grotesquely inflate all our estimates by a
>> factor of two or three, to give us time to do all the things in the list
>> above. If we ended up with spare time... then for goodness sake keep quiet
>> or your 'esimating ability' would be questioned and a Mao-style self
>> criticism would follow.
>>
>> Oh, and half the team was offshore in India and seemed not to give a flying
>> shit about anything.
>>
>> I am well aware that this is *NOT* how Agile is supposed to work but I just
>> wanted to raise the point (and hopefully invoke a few giggles in the
>> process) that Agile in the wrong hands can be a very effective system of
>> making developers lives hell.
>>
>> Have a good day,
>> John
>>
>> ____________________­____________
>> From: [address removed]
>> To: [address removed]
>> Subject: [ljc] University vs Real Life Industry Work
>> Date: Thu, 28 Jun[masked]:03:03 -0400
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Is there anyone else who thinks that Industry work is just about following
>> processes "agile daily standup, the whole day managers don't communicate
>> with the developers cause they are too busy doing meetings and then
>> in the morning they ask what you worked on, (whats the point?),
>> why even bother telling them  what you did since they don't have a
>> technical enough understanding of the issues a programmer faces,
>> to me the daily standup seems just a way of scrum masters (who mostly
>> have not coded in 10 years/ some have never coded in their lifes
>> and then they say that seems long why does it take so long to complete the
>> task
>> how can they say that if they have not written one line of code in their
>> lifes)
>> to control developers.
>>
>> Furthermore developers need to  put up a facade to managers
>> that they worked on a boring task such as replacing tag libraries
>> and they make it sound like a lot of work in the daily standup just to look
>> good in front of managers in their annual performance reviews.
>>
>> I've been industry for 3 years now and the longer I stay the more I feel
>> like
>> I want to start my own company although it is risk cause of money etc.
>>
>> Is this why so many developers start their own companies?
>>
>> University seemed so much more interesting than real life as
>> one could focus on topics that were interesting such as machine learning,
>> artificial intelligence, data mining, distributed systems and it fosters
>> a much more creative environment where research is possible because
>> there are no managers who try to control everything you do therefore
>> not allowing you to be a creative thinker which in my view is what makes
>> software development interesting in the first place.
>>
>> Thanks any views appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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