Re: [ljc] "I've never been a true believer in the Agile method"

From: Murray C.
Sent on: Sunday, June 16, 2013 12:03 PM
Geb seems to be talking in tautologies which does make it hard to have a proper discussion. Still have to watch Ben's talk to gather his points which have not been summarised elsewhere in this discussion.

I find the crux of what agile is about is effective communication and trust.  If the team and/or customers has problems with the first the second will always follow.

Now agile has jumped the chasm it has brought in the management consultants who have a new vision for agile: More for less. Sweat the labour.  

If not careful you can shape an agile team to become an unthinking feature delivery machine.  Could not find the original talk but here is the notes from a talk by Suki Bains and Kris Lander from Qcon 2012.  230 iterations later

cheers.
muz


On 15 June[masked]:03, Ben Evans <[address removed]> wrote:
Hi Fox,

I'm not sure whether I think that any of the effective practices I've seen are particularly novel - and as I said in the Devoxx version of the talk, my mind isn't made up about whether this is truly outside the scope of Agile in general.

More thought probably required from me, I think.

Ben


On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:04 PM, @sleepyfox <[address removed]> wrote:
I've taken a look at Ben's InfoQ presentation on Feynman (which appeals due to my background in Astrophysics), I've presented many times on Cargo cults and the dangers of following Agile (or any other) dogma without the use of critical thought e.g. here: https://speakerdeck.com/sleepyfox/agile-considered-harmful-sleepyfox-2011 

Scrum is particularly susceptible to this, because of its lack of any technical practices and the particular focus of certain certification bodies on money-making rather than quality. 

The danger of *any* methodology is in the tendency for people to ascribe it magical 'silver-bullet' powers and to think that it is a simple recipe that can be followed without the need to engage ones' critical faculties. Fred Brookes wrote about this back in 1986, Feynman in 1974; and I am sure they were travelling a well-worn road.

I'm not sure that I agree with Ben on slide 38 of his presentation, I can't see anything that was presented that is 'different' per se from Agile or outside of the scope of previous Agile implementation - at least not the way that I and some others in the XP community practice it. This seems more a difference between 'Good Agile' vs. 'Bad Agile' or perhaps 'Agile' vs. 'Faux Agile'. Maybe I'm missing something?

Ben: if there are any techniques or practices that you've come across that you think are unique or novel I would be grateful if you could share them with us.

Thanks,  

Fox
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On 14 June[masked]:59, Martijn Verburg <[address removed]> wrote:
My suggestion is that people read the original manifesto and apply it in a manner that best suits themselves and their organisation. 

Anyone who's seen my Diabolical Developer and Modern Software Development Anti-Pattern (with Ben) rants to know my opinions on this particular subject, yes Scrum is a pyramid scheme ;-).

Cheers,
Martijn


On 14 June[masked]:28, Ged Byrne <[address removed]> wrote:
Because I want facts, not opinions.  I certainly don't want beliefs.  Only placebo's require belief.  "Belief" is what I object to, not "Agile."

Because In the beginning it was about uncovering better ways of developing software.  Now I have come to associate the "Agile" approach with dogma and mantra.  Many keep insisting that the best way to develop software has already been uncovered.  I think we still have a long way to go.

Because, to paraphrase Wilde, whenever everybody agrees with something I always feel it must be wrong.


On 14 June[masked]:11, Shaine <[address removed]> wrote:
Just for curiosity, why do you believe in the Agile method?







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