Re: [atheists-487] Obama appointment

From: Darren G.
Sent on: Thursday, July 9, 2009 1:38 PM
It's an analogy, Frances! Obviously, I do not think he holds that opinion.

No one is trying to pry into Collins's private fantasy.... these are 
publicly stated opinions of his! And they affect his co-workers view of 
them, and the public's view of the NIH.


Frances Prevas wrote:
> It isn't his opinion that women are inferior. So he's already shown that he can compartmentalize his religion and science.
>
> We can't ask for anything more.
>
> When you start to pry into people's private fantasies, you come dangerously close to thought crimes and the Inquisition.
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Darren Gates <[address removed]> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Darren Gates <[address removed]>
>> Subject: Re: [atheists-487] Obama appointment
>> To: [address removed]
>> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 1:18 PM
>> suppose that his opinion was that
>> women are inferior to men (this is just an analogy!)...
>>
>> Suppose also that his opinion is JUST his private fantasy
>> and he never actually denies women any top-level
>> appointments, and he treats women in the workplace equally,
>> etc.... BUT he write a book about how inferior women are to
>> men. Would you want him leading the NIH? I wouldn't.
>>
>> My contention is that regardless of his accolades, or even
>> his public behavior and work ethic... a single, privately
>> held opinion can make someone unqualified.
>>
>> Frances Prevas wrote:
>>     
>>> I have seen nothing that indicates that Collins'
>>>       
>> religion is anything other than his private fantasy, with no
>> effect on anything that really matters.
>>     
>>> It would be inappropriate or illegal for an
>>>       
>> adminstrator to act on the assumption that women are
>> inferior to men, so I'm sure that the Obama adminstration
>> has vetted him for that.
>>     
>>> There is an Obama appointment that is more worth
>>>       
>> worrying about - Alexia Kelly, a Catholic woman who was
>> appointed to one of the "faith based" offices who rejects
>> abortion and birth control.
>>     
>>> http://www.salon....­
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Darren Gates <[address removed]>
>>>       
>> wrote:
>>     
>>>    
>>>       
>>>> From: Darren Gates <[address removed]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [atheists-487] Obama appointed a
>>>>         
>> hold-over Creationist to head NIH?
>>     
>>>> To: [address removed]
>>>> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 12:44 PM
>>>> I think that one opinion can change
>>>> everything when it comes to qualifications for a
>>>>         
>> top
>>     
>>>> government job.
>>>>
>>>> For example, suppose Collins held the opinion that
>>>>         
>> women
>>     
>>>> were inferior to men, *but* suppose that his
>>>>         
>> scientific and
>>     
>>>> management credentials were impeccable. Would he
>>>>         
>> be fit to
>>     
>>>> be the head of the NIH? I don't think so. I see
>>>>         
>> his
>>     
>>>> religious opinions as no less offensive to his
>>>>         
>> appointment.
>>     
>>>> YaraMC wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­ Darren, thank you for that article. Frances,
>>>>>­           
>> as an
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> older woman, I am all too familiar with the way
>>>>         
>> such
>>     
>>>> believers compartmentalize their "scientific
>>>>         
>> discipline" and
>>     
>>>> still manage to hold on to the belief in the
>>>>         
>> inferiority of
>>     
>>>> women and certain ethnic groups, in the "rightness
>>>>         
>> of their
>>     
>>>> own beliefs and the "wrongness" of others'
>>>>         
>> beliefs. Such a
>>     
>>>> person has no place in a secular government. I
>>>>         
>> don't want
>>     
>>>> his biases clouding his judgment in any way. I
>>>>         
>> don't want to
>>     
>>>> give such as he the chance to "turn to god" in
>>>>         
>> moments of
>>     
>>>> stress.
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­ YaraMC
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ --- On *Thu, 7/9/09, Darren Gates /<[address removed]>/*
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       From: Darren Gates <[address removed]>
>>>>>­       Subject: Re:
>>>>>­           
>> [atheists-487]
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Obama appointed a hold-over
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       Creationist to head NIH?
>>>>>­       To: [address removed]
>>>>>­       Date: Thursday, July 9,
>>>>>­           
>> 2009,
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> 11:42 AM
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       This is a good article by
>>>>>­           
>> my
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> hero, Sam Harris:
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       http://www.truthd...­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­       Frances Prevas wrote:
>>>>>­       > Don't go overboard.
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       > Francis Collins is a
>>>>>­           
>> well
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> regarded scientist and administrator,
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       and PZ Myers says he will
>>>>>­           
>> make
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> a good administrator.
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       > http://scienceblo...­
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       > He's not a Young
>>>>>­           
>> Earth
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Creationist or a Bible literalist. He
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       might think that there
>>>>>­           
>> are
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> first hand accounts in the New
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       Testament, but a fair
>>>>>­           
>> number
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> of people think that, even without
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       believing that Jesus rose
>>>>>­           
>> from
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> the dead.
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       > --- On Thu, 7/9/09,
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> YaraMC <[address removed]
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>>
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >     
>>>>>­           
>>    
>>     
>>>>     >> From: YaraMC <[address removed]
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>>
>>>>>­       >> Subject: Re:
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> [atheists-487] Obama appointed a hold-over
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       Creationist to head NIH?
>>>>>­       >> To: [address removed]
>>>>>­       </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>
>>>>>­       >> Date: Thursday,
>>>>>­           
>> July
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> 9, 2009, 10:52 AM
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> I have been a
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Democrat all my life,
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> but Obama is
>>>>>­           
>> turning
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> out to be following and imitating all
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> of Bush's
>>>>>­           
>> retrograde
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> and anti-woman policies. I will NOT
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> be voting again
>>>>>­           
>> for
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> this man.
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­         
>>>>>­           
>>>>    
>>>>         
>> Obama=Bush,Obama=Bus­h,Obama=Bush,Obama=B­ush,Obama=Bush,Obama­=Bush,Obama=Bush,Oba­ma=Bush,
>>     
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Obama=Bush,Obama=Bus­h.
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       >> I'm sick and
>>>>>­           
>> tired of
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> it.
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       >> YaraMC
>>>>>­       >> --- On Thu,
>>>>>­           
>> 7/9/09,
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Neil Clark
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> <[address removed]
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       >> From: Neil Clark
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> <[address removed]
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>>
>>>>>­       >> Subject:
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> [atheists-487] Obama appointed a hold-over
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> Creationist to
>>>>>­           
>> head
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> NIH?
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> To: [address removed]
>>>>>­       </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>
>>>>>­       >> Date: Thursday,
>>>>>­           
>> July
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> 9, 2009, 10:36 AM
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       >> I am all for
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> bi-partisan
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­           
>> inclusiveness...but
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> that doesn't mean that I'll sit
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> quietly by as a
>>>>>­       >> 
>>>>>­           
>> bible-believer
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> is placed at the head of the National
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> Institutes of
>>>>>­           
>> Health
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> - presumably to placate a vocal
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >> minority of
>>>>>­           
>> prideful
>>     
>>>>>­       >> Right-Wing
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> know-nothings...
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       http://rawstory.c...­
>>>>>­       >>
>>>>>­       >> Neil Clark
>>>>>­       >> Long Beach CA
>>>>>­       >>   
>>>>>­           
>>        
>>     
>>>>     >
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >     
>>>>>­           
>>      
>>     
>>>>       >
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       > --
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>>>>>­           
>> hit
>>     
>>>>>­        
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>>>>>­       </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>)
>>>>>­       > http://atheists.m...­
>>>>>­       > This message was sent
>>>>>­           
>> by
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Frances Prevas ([address removed]
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       </mc/compose?to=[­address removed]>)
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> from The Long Beach
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>>>>­       Atheists Meetup Group.
>>>>>­       > To learn more about
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Frances Prevas, visit his/her member
>>>>      
>>>>         
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>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >
>>>>>­       >   
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­       --
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>>>>>­       This message was sent by
>>>>>­        
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>>>> Darren Gates ([address removed]
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>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> from The Long Beach Atheists
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>>>>         
>>>>>­       Meetup Group.
>>>>>­       To learn more about
>>>>>­           
>> Darren
>>     
>>>>>­        
>>>>>­           
>>>> Gates, visit his/her member profile:
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>>>>>­ This message was sent by YaraMC ([address removed])
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