Los Angeles Urban Chicken Enthusiasts Message Board › Disappointing necropsy and note of caution. Be somewhat wary of local breeders.

Disappointing necropsy and note of caution. Be somewhat wary of local breeders.

Brandi G
user 48566262
Pasadena, CA
Post #: 239
So I just got the necropsy results back from Bok Bok, my 3 month old pullet. I had her euthanized last week due to failing health for $200. It was expensive and excruciating to see her suffer, but what really has my panties in a wad is the necropsy results. I purchased her along with another chick, Charlie and a pullet, Agnes. I got them for a local backyard breeder who seemed to claim to be the end all, be all, expert on chickens. I got my first round of chicks from another breeder who gave us chicks that don't seem as heathy as they could be. I wanted to get chicks locally, to check out where they were kept and all that. When I went to pick up the chicks, it struck me that the place wasn't very clean and the strong smell of ammonia and chickens were present. I tried to ignore it since there were A LOT of chickens there. I brought my chicks home and immediately noticed the pullet had cocci like symptoms. I suspected that the less than clean environment may have had something to do with it, but just got some Corrid and treated the young ones. The pullet was in with my big girls for a few days but I never had any cocci or roundworms in my flock (according to the necropsy done on Claire). This latest necropsy showed slight levels of roundworms, Cocci and most distressingly, Marek's disease. Bok Bok died because of Marek's and I'm left to wonder if this breeder didn't introduce all three things into my once healthy flock.

It happens, I know, but I'm taking away from this that Dare to Dream or some of the more professional breeders that are small and local may be a much better way to go. I will have to permanently vaccinate for Marek's in my flock and I am afraid, Charlie, little Bok Bok's sister is at risk for dying of Marek's. The older birds may be okay, but I'm hoping her immune system will beat it.

I guess what I'm tying to say is that spending the extra money for well raised birds that their breeding and heritage can be identified can save serious heartache. I'm so disappointed that $20 worth of chickens may have decimated my whole flock. Now I have to be super careful with any meetups and any other visitors, also.

I'll post the necropsy reports soon. I'm definitely trying to figure out what to do- I'm going to treat everyone with Corrid, to be safe. My flock never had bloody poops or any odd stuff before, but lately, I have had some weird poops. The Corrid is mild, so I'd like to kill off the cocci, just don't know what to do with the negligible amount of roundworms. They are present, but very minor, but I don't like the way my girls are acting lately.

I'm so bummed and a bit frustrated.
Amanda G
user 12128708
Los Angeles, CA
Post #: 209
Brandi I am so sorry! The vet I took my hen to said that Marek's has been showing up in flocks with a lot of unusual symptoms... Not the typical. Can you vaccinate at this stage??? I'd load them up with tons of herbs & natural antibiotics ... Garlic, ACV , Polyvisol baby vitamins a few drops a day for the one you are worried about ... I just ordered the oregano oil concoction from mypetchicken that organic farmers are using with great success ... I wish I knew what else to tell you... What do your weird poops look like?? It could be from the worms and not Cocci .... Are they standing in corners fluffed up ??? That is a telltale sign of cocci ....

I just sent my bird Caesar in a few weeks ago crying and the preliminary report said that she was FAT and had markedly hemorrhagic lungs. The vet said she wasn't worried about her being fat but obviously about the lungs!! I googled what can cause that and had to stop as I was FREAKING myself out!!! So many chicken diseases and they spread so easily & quickly.

Let us know what you find out... and good luck with your hens! If you want some of my oregano oil... It should arrive any day!
Brandi G
user 48566262
Pasadena, CA
Post #: 240
Amanda,

There's lots of standing around, no eggs and one has puffy eyes.

What Marek's symptoms have you heard about? Bok Bok was just losing balance and showed sour crop. I wouldn't have even noticed but the crop was just wrong. Then I noticed the balance issue. I'm glad I know, but it's pretty disappointing. Of course the vet said there is no known cure, as we know, and the other issues, I would have to bring ALL my birds in to treat for cocci and worms. I found that mildly annoying, after spending $200, but I guess that's the way it goes.

I've got poly vi sol, cayenne, turmeric, and the usual ACV going. I'm adding Corrid for 5 days. I guess I can see how they are doing after that. If the worms don't respond to the turmeric, cayenne, etc, I guess I can add something stronger then. My knowledge of oil of Oregano is that it is a strong anti-fungal, not sure about if it would help with worms or general malaise.

Something is up, for certain.

I think vaccines are effective for Merek's as day olds. It seems to affect chickens around this age. These diseases are killing me! What caused Ceasar's ling issues, btw?
Amanda G
user 12128708
Los Angeles, CA
Post #: 211
On the website it's says it works against bacteria, fungus, & parasites to help get gut healthy. This is the formula that the article was written about in the ny times. Your girls are old enough I wouldn't think cocci would affect them except the young one. Balance loss is a tell tale sign of Marecks from what I've read. I'll so some research as I remember someone talking about having success treating Marecks hmmmmmm....

I am still waiting for the final report from UC Davis on Caesar. The vet noticed that Caesar had a bruise on her Abdomen (ucDavis didn't note this in prelim report) so she said there is a possibility that she fell & fractured her liver which later caused her to throw a blood clot to the lungs which in turn caused the hemorrhaging. I'm going with that until I know more as all the other diseases that cause that are horrifying!! Every time one of my flock makes any noise I'm worried :) so I know how you feel!!

I'll let you know if I find what I read about Marecks .... I also have stronger wormer if you decide to go that route. The swollen eye .... Ugh that's worrying not cocci and I don't think Marecks, but I don't know.... Which chicken is that??? Hopefully someone else will better advice!! Keep us posted & good luck.
Carrie G.
user 15135741
Reseda, CA
Post #: 51
So sorry for the plight you're in. We bought some local hens with bad results. It left us ultimately very wary of introducing our next new hens to the flock. Lesson learned!

Go back to the seller and call them on their practices: demand your money back (more a slap in the face), tell them they are unethically selling sick livestock that put your flock at risk. I'm not sure who to report them to, but that might protect the next customer.
Cynthia
bringer_o_treats
Los Angeles, CA
Post #: 348
Brandi
I'm so sorry you're having all these health issues. In your other post where you mentioned worms I didn't realize the issue was so much larger. The cocci and worms are things you can treat for yourself - you shouldn't have to take all your hens to the vet for it (that does get crazy expensive). Now that you know what you're dealing with you should be able to order the meds you feel are appropriate on line and administer them yourself ( I guess you probably already know this). I hope you get past this and into better times soon.
Brandi G
user 48566262
Pasadena, CA
Post #: 241
Cynthia,

That's my thought also. I'll post the necropsy. It came back fast, probably because the vet sent it in and the Marek's diagnosis is bad for the rest of the flock. The cocci was listed as moderate and the roundworms, mild. They may work it out once they perk up. They had a bit of lice recently also, which is a sign they just don't feel well. I feel like I'm running a chicken hospital and I expect to go out to a dead one daily :(

Amanda, the poops have intestinal lining, which my big girls never had until maybe a month or two ago. The first round of birds came from a NPIP certified breeder, but she probably sent lower quality birds since I didn't pick them out personally. She certainly sent none with diseases. Every once in a while I saw loose stools and those icky cecal poops, but it seems to be more frequent. Maybe i'm just paying more attention? The second breeder was all talk and some bad advice and really angered me. She's the one that pushed to add a tiny 3 month old pullet in with the big girls who were having pecking order issues after Claire died. She, Agnes, got badly attacked, which I was remorseful for listening to advice I thought was wrong to begin with. Turns out my gut was correct, just like the cocci. It's just depressing that you cannot trust people. I need to read the oil of oregano article and consider trying it. What do I have to lose at this point? I feel like I'm raising a vector coop full of lepers right now...

Carrie, where was the breeder you got birds from, just out of curiosity?
Par S.
user 37469972
Los Angeles, CA
Post #: 12
Brandi was this the breeder from the OC?

I was always very weary and put off by her arrogant poultry authority attitude. She left the Southern California Poultry People group on Facebook after some "dared" to dispute her knowledge and advice on chicken raising. This after she repeatly bad mouthed other breeders accusing them of inbreeding and unsanitary conditions.
Brandi G
user 48566262
Pasadena, CA
Post #: 242
Par, you got it! I was a little leery also. Turns out I was correct. I drive all the way down there so I got a few. I should not have, I suppose. I do like the girls I got, they just came with a bunch of parasites and such. I knew she kind of got run off Facebook RIGHT after I got mine. It's sort of ironic that she was bad mouthing other people's sanitation. In her defense, she had HORDES of chickens. No amount of cleaning in that chicken area would keep that many birds clean. But most of what she said was complete BS, in retrospect.

I guess I'm just trying to warn people so if they feel in their "gut" that someone is full of it, or their set up is unclean, or even not regulated or certified, it may save some heartache. Introducing diseases birds, even after quarantine (I did almost 2 months, except the pullet I added after a few days, as strongly suggested by her) I NEVER should have listened to her!!
Karen C.
user 83873082
Palos Verdes Peninsula, CA
Post #: 64
Hi Brandi...This is all getting scary! I just attended The Mother Earth News Fair in Pennsylvania. Jessi Bloom, author of City Chicks, suggested Colloidal Silver for eye washes, as well as Colloidal Silver Gel for eyes, as well as used orally. I, too, have had one bird pooping lining but not bloody. I treated the flock for seven days with Corid and although the lining disappeared, the poop is still thin butterscotch pudding. Found a website that someone recommended on BYC with poop pictures. They suggest the butterscotch puddingy poop is normal. Related to summer heat and drinking a lot. Everyone else's poops look good. Have never wormed these guys. They are 3 months old, but I do a lot of grated carrots and ACV. I'm ordering my medicines from Jeffers. The other thing she said was we must watch for Respiratory Gulping...caused by gulp worms! Apparently chickens are being suffocated by these worms.
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