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Re: [NOVA-Atheists] Loudoun County Displays - Board of Supervisors Meeting Tonight

From: user 3.
Sent on: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 4:45 PM
Yes, I had gathered that. I certainly do not push for control over messaging in this sense. I am simply making a conjecture about how the group, as proponents for free speech, may (if you want to at all) create a cohesive message that may carry some weight in the community.

Again, I apologize if I speak out of turn. I have no experience with the group, know few of you, and am not familiar with how you function. I do hope, however, to get to know all of you a little better.

On 12/6/2011 4:42 PM, Ellen Birch wrote:

Janelle son is christian and his display was from that standpoint. Nova atheists does not exercise editorial control over individual displays, only the one with our name on it. The santa display issue is about free speech not atheism, which we support. Rick and I are at channel 9 waiting for his debate with supervisor Reid at 5 pm.

On Dec 6,[masked]:10 PM, "Duff Means" <[address removed]> wrote:
I'm relatively new myself. I'd say make your offer to the group, and let them decide. I'm in favor.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Ian Thomas <[address removed]> wrote:
I definitely agree with what Rob has to say here. However, it is one thing to 'show yourself to be right.' It is another thing for people to hear about it. This is an opportunity for a concerted, effective, publicity movement that leads to constructive non-theist, non-confrontational conversation.

In a side conversation with 'Duff Means' I offered what may be a solution for getting this going. I'm going to let him make the call on whether to forward it to the rest of you because I am extremely new to the group and am not fully aware of the dynamics.

Suffice to say that as an alternative dispute resolution professional, I commend all of you on your response and attitudes. It makes me proud to be part of a free-thinking society.

Ian


On 12/6/2011 3:50 PM, Robby Thomson wrote:
I agree with Matt,
The display itself I don't find offensive mostly because I'm not a theist.  However, given the ambiguity of opinions that have been received by theists on the news,  I would say that the statement of it was not entirely clear.  Clearly it offended somebody and their reaction in the long term will have a positive effect.  In the history of America the Liberal movement has always been pushing the changing moral zeitgeist.  We as the intellectually informed must do our part in the battle against superstition.  The best way to do that is by being openly rational, openly skeptical, and most importantly openly moral to our fellow man.  We must show ourselves on the side of right at all times. In this case we have done just that. 
 
Rob


Subject: Re: [NOVA-Atheists] Loudoun County Displays - Board of Supervisors Meeting Tonight
From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Date: Tue, 6 Dec[masked]:16:26 -0500


Well, if we wanted to offend people, the best way would probably to have Santa getting raped by Jesus. Or vice versa. But unless I'm mistaken, we're not trying to offend (and I felt that the display was not in poor taste).

Matt

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:58 PM, nondescript <[address removed]> wrote:
I think the display offended them for many reasons, but one of the biggest is the equating Santa Claus with Jesus by putting him on a cross. If it was just a skeleton Santa in a sleigh, I bet nobody would have bothered with it.

Eric


On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Nate Granger <[address removed]> wrote:
I agree with Duff but will go one better. I believe there are others of us who would concur.
It's not a good idea to involve Santa. Santa is secular. There are undoubtedly many Loudouners who are secular but not involved in our movement who would be unhappy if their children were exposed to this. When my kids still believed in Santa I wouldnt have wanted them to see Santa on a cross, skeleton or not.
The commercialism of xmas is not our complaint. That's a christian complaint. The more commercial it is, the less religious it is, the better for us.
There's a million other potential displays that we could erect that would move in the direction of what I think are our two goals:
1. Get people thinking about the absurdity of the god concept.
2. Get the BOS to change the rule, to allow no displays.
I don't mind offending xtians regarding religious views. I don't agree with offending everybody (esp those with children) with the Santa display. That hurts our cause.
Nate





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