Pahtfinder Game & Tweaks - Used to be: Some Changes for my 3.5 Game

At some point I'll make a formatted version of this post it as a PDF in the files section.
I use these rules to satisfy myself and my players and pretty much no one else. Some of it may seemed over powered.
We'll find out in play and make adjustments as needed.

(UPDATED 4-27-09) At this point I'm primarily using Pathfinder (Beta) as the core for the games that I run, It's different from 3.5 but really not that much different. I've been updating the encounters on 2 3.5 adventures (Encounter at Blackwall Keep and Hall of Harsh Reflections) and it's been a cakewalk so far. I've kept one or two things as they were in 3.5 that Pathfinder changed (skill point alotment was a biggie).

Everything else is coming from 3rd party OGL rules, in particular Book of Experimental Might (where I took the altered Metamagic rules) and Bad Axe Games upcoming Trailblazer. Trailblazer came up with very eloquent ways of translating some 4E mechanics into 3.5 or OGL that can be easily kitted into any 3.5 / Pathfinder game. There is a preview HERE.

Of particular note is the encounter budgeting and the 10 min rest (which I have changed a little for use in my game, but it was an excellent starting point).

Customized Changes

Ability Scores

• Method B: "fighting Chance" Array (16, 15, 14, 12, 11, 10)
  

(UPDATED 4-27-09) I've removed the other options because any game that I run and I'm generating Pre-gens for will be using this array or something very close to it. I'm not against using other methods, but for simplicity's sake this works best for me.

Abilites Tied to Spell casting:
Intelligence (INT) - Wizards
Wisdom (WIS) - Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rangers
Charisma (CHA) - Sorcerers, Bards

Racial Modifiers (as per Pathfinder) - three scores are modified, 2 bonuses, 1 penalty. The exceptions to this are Humans an Half-Elves who get +2 to one Ability.
NOTE: I’d tinkered with the idea of dropping the penalty but I like the idea of PC’s at least being weak in one thing…

• Dwarves (+2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha)
  
• Elves (+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con)
  
• Gnomes (+2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Str)
  
• Half Elves(+2 to any one ability score)
  
• Half Orcs (+2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Int)
  
• Halflings (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str)
  
• Humans (+2 to any one ability score)
  

Favored Class: (as per Pathfinder) Each Race has a favored Class. Whenever you gain a level in your favored class you gain 1 hp or 1 skill point.

NOTE: I like the notion of GIVING the PC’s something for having a favored class as opposed to taking something away or penalizing them when they don’t take a level in their favored class.

• Dwarves: Cleric or Fighter
  
• Elves: Ranger or Wizard
  
• Gnomes: Bard or Sorcerer
  
• Half Elves: Can choose any one class as favored class at first level.
  
• Half Orcs: Barbarian or Cleric
  
• Halflings: Bard or Rogue
  
• Humans: Can choose any one class as favored class at first level.
  

Starting Hit Points:
Starting Hit Points are now max hit die + con Score.
Ex. 1st level Fighter w/ 16 Con starts with (10 (fighter HD) + 16 (Con) = 26 hit points)

NOTE: this was something that I first saw on a house rules thread on ENWorld a few years ago and wanted to implement it into my game and just never did. It’s going to be pretty much standard in my games now.
It can always be changed back to the default if people decide that they want a grittier game. But for now it makes fighter types tougher and Wizards and Sorcerers can survive a fight with a house cat not to mention a basic Orc…

Hit Point Progression:
Hit point progression beyond 1st level is static.

• D6 HD --- 4hp per level + Con Mod
  
• D8 HD --- 5hp per level + Con Mod
  
• D10 HD –- 6hp per level + Con Mod
  
• D12 HD -- 7hp per level + Con Mod
  

Class Hit dice changes: (as per Pathfinder)

• Sorcerers & Wizards formerly d4 now d6
  
• Bards & Rogues formerly d6 now d8
  
• Rangers formerly d8 now d10
  

Classes:
BAB’s saves and starting money are the same as 3.5 PHB.
Class Abilities are from the Pathfinder Beta
(detailed list of changes to come later…)

Skills:
3.5 PHB Skill point generation.
Example: Rogues start out with 8 skill points + Int bonus times 4 at first level in 3.5. That stays the same in my game, even though the Pathfinder Beta uses a different system for skill point allocation.

Pathfinder Skill compression:

• Balance, Jump and Tumble have been folded into a skill called Acrobatics.
  
• Concentration has been folded into Spellcraft
  
• Decipher Script, Forgery, Speak Languages folded into Linguistics
  
• Gather Information folded into Diplomacy
  
• Hide and Move Silently folded into Stealth
  
• Listen, Search and Spot folded into Perception
  
• Open Lock folded into Disable Device
  
• Use Rope has been eliminated
  

Feats:
Feat distribution is as per Pathfinder Beta rules.

Metamagic Feats:
Metamagic feats are per Book of Experimental Might (by Monte Cook one of the original authors of D&D 3E).

• Empower Spell 3 daily uses
  
• Enlarge Spell 3 daily uses
  
• Extend Spell 3 Daily uses
  
• Heighten Spell 2 Daily Uses
  
• Maximize Spell 2 Daily Uses
  
• Quicken Spell 1 Daily Use
  
• Silent Spell 3 Daily Uses
  
• Still Spell 3 Daily uses
  

You may choose a feat multiple times. Each time you do you gain the daily amount of use as listed next to the feat.

Stacking Metamagic Feats:
A player is able to stack as many feats on a specific spell as his primary spellcasting ability bonus will allow.

Example: Violer, a Sorcerer with 17 CHA wants to casta maximized, Empowered Silent Fireball. Since his primary spellcasting ability bonus is +3 (17 Cha) he can if he wanted to add a stilled metamagic onto the fireball he could not.

To Continue:

Ability Advancement:

(UPDATED 4-27-09) I've decided not to use the Ability Advancement listed above and use the standard +1 every 4 levels with my present group. This may change with any new groups I decide to start with though.

Healing Surges

(UPDATED 4-27-09) Yeah I've decided to also remove Healing Surges as it's yet another mechanic for the PC's to keep track of. I've replaced it basically with the OGL version of the 10 min rest. The owner of Bad Axe games is releasing what is in effect an Unearthed Arcana for Pathfinder / 3.5 called Trailblazer and has some interesting solutions for some of the "issues" with 3.5. More on these later...

XP expenditure (as per Pathfinder):
Certain spells require you to expend XP to cast them or item creation costs XP. The expenditure of XP to do these things are being removed. Multiply all XP costs by 5 and treat them instead as special material component costs.

Minion Rules for 3.5
Minions are 1hp per HD, ¼ XP, Minions cant critical and have set damage.

Damage die norm Minion Damage

• D4 2
  
• D6 3
  
• D8 4
  
• D10 5
  
• D12 6
  

Each additional die of damage adds two points.

Example: a minion that does 3d6 damage normally would do 7 points of damage. 3 Points for the 1st D6, then an additional 2 points for every D6 after the first.

NOTE: One of the things I love about being a DM is seeing the look on my players faces when they get into a situation that may be over their heads. The table tends to get quite and then some one usually will mutter : “Oh, Shit…”

But then usually someone else will just say “You know what? We can get through this” and everyone will rally around that person and the fight begins.

My favorite part is usually happens in the middle of that fight when the players realize that they are doing better than they would have expected considering the odds.

That’s one of the reasons why I like the idea of minions.

Granted there are some things that I’ll never make minions of (Mind Flayers, Dragons…) but theyre great for that massive melee when it’s 5 PC’s vs like 20 Orcs or 30 Goblins.

I like this amalgam alot!

wow you put a lot of work into this are you gonna be at the meetup i think id like to play in your game

I wont be at this Meetup, but if there's a demand for a modded 3.5 / Pathfinder game I'll run the first part of one of their adventures (I was thinking D0 Hollow's Last Hope) at the next one.

If people want in on the game let me know. If people have a preference for character race and class let me know and I'll generate a pre-made for them. You can use the Fighting Chance array to place stats and I'll take care of the rest.

Thanks for posting these Rick, neat stuff. I have my own tweaks I've made to 3.5 for my group, although they are less extensive. They often involve jettisoning parts of the game we find less useful to our campaign -- alignment usually falls out. We also usually don't play below 3rd level, which obviates fragility and lack of abilities, although maybe we shouldn't have to do such a thing since 1st level seems like a natural starting point.

This might not be the right place to ask this, but what is the appeal of minions? D&D has an exponential power curve, so if, say, the Illithid has a bunch of mind-controlled orcs (which would seem to count as minions), they will not be able to harm the higher level players very much b/c of ACs, etc., and will also be easily wiped out by a fireball, cleave, etc. It seems to me like the present rules structure already takes that into account, though I'm probably missing something.

Oh, and as a GM and a player I love those "oh sh*t" moments where we're in over our heads. Or at least most of the time as long as they don't involve summary meteor swarms. We're heroes, after all ...

Thanks for posting these Rick, neat stuff. I have my own tweaks I've made to 3.5 for my group, although they are less extensive. They often involve jettisoning parts of the game we find less useful to our campaign -- alignment usually falls out. We also usually don't play below 3rd level, which obviates fragility and lack of abilities, although maybe we shouldn't have to do such a thing since 1st level seems like a natural starting point.

This might not be the right place to ask this, but what is the appeal of minions? D&D has an exponential power curve, so if, say, the Illithid has a bunch of mind-controlled orcs (which would seem to count as minions), they will not be able to harm the higher level players very much b/c of ACs, etc., and will also be easily wiped out by a fireball, cleave, etc. It seems to me like the present rules structure already takes that into account, though I'm probably missing something.

Thanks for your reply Nicholas.

The minions come into play mostly at lower levels. Like I said I put these rules together for me and players and I'm a DM that doesnt like to start a campaign above 1st level. At first level I want to be able to challenge my players and at the same time give them a sense of accomplishment. I want to be able to throw a whole slew of orcs or goblins at them without having to worry about whether I've overdone it. 1 or 2 HP minions with no ability to crit fills this niche nicely. I agree at higher levels it kind of evens out. Even then if there's a situation where I need to shine the light on a solo player or someone who's running a character who isnt optimized (yes there are players out there who dont min / max everything) it's nice to be able to throw something at them without worrying about steamrolling them.

Alignment is a useful tool in my games as I like running heroic games. I pretty much don't allow evil alignments into my games. I'm uncomfortable with it and it also seems as if evil is a license to act like an asshole. I deal with enough assholes in real life I really dont want to in deal with assholish behavior in game as well. I do believe in shades of grey and I dont believe that good = stupid, but I do tend to use alignment as a guide for player actions (as well as NPC's and Monsters). It also goes to intent, I rely more on personality and role-playing to get a character / NPC across. The cool thing about RPG's is that in cases like this it's To each his own...

When do you think you will be having these modded 3.5/Pathfinder games and at what location?

When do you think you will be having these modded 3.5/Pathfinder games and at what location?

I kind of address that upthread.

Like I said if I get enough people interested I'll run a game next meetup.
Anyone who's interested should shoot me an e-mail.

There's a little envelope to the left of this text box...

Duh... I must've missed that when scrolling through the thread. Hard to surf at work while trying to look busy and deal with out-of-towners visiting.