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Re: [NYC-rb] Re: [Workshop] The Art of Cucumber

From: Peter B.
Sent on: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:08 PM
On Oct 18, 2011, at 1:44 PM, Ryan Ong wrote:

I think most people in the ruby community don't teach or help to make money or even break even. I think a lot of people just want to give back to the community that has given them so much.

That makes sense. I present at about 20 conferences a year and until the last year or two, didn't get paid for any of them. I just loved learning and sharing in the various communities (from Groovy to domain specific modeling) and was happy to pay for flights and sometimes accommodation in order to share and give back to the various communities.

That said, while I have a full time gig these days, I also do run some paid trainings and workshops and get paid for presentations at some of the conferences I attend, and I don't think there's anything wrong in that just as I (personally) don't think there's anything wrong in charging for software or (horror of horrors) getting paid to program. Equally, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing pro-bono coding, open sourcing software or presenting for free. 

I was just a little surprised by the push back against the price of the course. After all, there are a number of good Ruby shops like Thoughbot that charge thousands of dollars for training (and their employees present for free at conferences - it isn't an either/or thing). Personally I'd like to see more paid training courses in the Ruby and Rails world as it might help to improve the number and quality of new developers joining the community.

Just my 2c

Best Wishes,
Peter

Ryan
-------------------



On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Peter Bell <[address removed]> wrote:
@Vik,

Wow. How much do you charge per hour for coding? When I code I make $125/hr. 8 hours of training with at least 8 hours of prep means I'd need to clear $2k to justify running a course (I don't do Ruby training - just as well if $400 is considered pricy!). Assuming space for a day is another $800 (I don't know rates in the city - that may be pretty optimistic), just to break even on time and costs I'd need to make $2800. So at $20 a head, that'd be 140 attendees (which wouldn't fit into a $800 room). 

I don't think $400 is unreasonable for a day of training. If it shaves 3-8 hours (depending on your hourly rate) off of the time it takes you to do things over the next couple of months it'd pay for itself - either for yourself as a contractor or for your boss as an employee.

Also, at $125/hr (or even $50/hr), the biggest cost by far of a day long course is the 8-10 hours I don't get to work/bill. 

Just to ask vik, would *you* be willing to rent a space in Manhattan and take a day off of work/contracting to run a course with a rate of $20/attendee? If so, let me know if you've got any good upcoming courses as if the material is worth a day of my time, the price would be a steal!

Best Wishes,
Peter


On Oct 18, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Vik Venkatraman wrote:

Sorry Joe -

I have to agree with Volkan. I would have been happy to come to your workshop and share it with a bunch of people if it was in the $5-$20 range. $400 seems a bit steep.

vik
--

Vik Venkatraman
The man makes the clothes. Clothes never make the man.
E: [address removed]
M: [masked]
Twitter: @vikvenkat, @vbespoke
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