Re: [NYC-rb] Re: [Workshop] The Art of Cucumber

From: Jeff K.
Sent on: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 3:58 PM
Where do you all learn of the free/low cost ruby courses? Mainly through this listserv? (I just joined a few weeks ago).  I'd appreciate your collective wisdom.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Jean Barmash <[address removed]> wrote:
To come to Peter's defense - I personally know he has given many (as in dozens this year alone probably) talks for free out of his own desire to get back, but his points are still valid.  

Sometimes we may take a project for a nonprofit and do it for free, other times we take another similar project and charge money so we can make ends meet.  By doing free projects does not mean that we are required to do what potential customers would like us to, which is to work free or cheap - it's our choice.  Saying that it's ridiculous to charge what you feel it's worth, especially in a public forum, is IMHO misguided.  

This is not an hour-long introductory presentation, it is a full day course that I presume will involve a different kind of preparation and be more valuable as a result.  I would have no problem paying that much for a course I would find valuable, in fact, just did about a week ago.   

Perhaps there are some that feel that spending the same eight hours playing around with cucumber would yield them similar results to taking the course, that may be true, but don't forget that different people learn differently and some might benefit more from the structured course more than others. 

Thanks,

Jean

P.S.  To echo another point, the majority cost for training is your time and the work you would have done.  So assuming conservatively you make $50/hour and that your work brings the same value to your project, your cost for taking the day out of work is $400 already.   Whether your final cost (opportunity cost + direct cost) is $400, $420, or $800 for the day, your cost is already in hundreds of dollars.   Obviously, if attending training will save you two days of gotchas, then it's a net win.   


On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:45 PM, David Bernal <[address removed]> wrote:
Publicly berating potential customers and focusing on cost to you, rather than value to them is definitely the way to go here, good call.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Peter Bell <[address removed]> wrote:
@Vik,

Wow. How much do you charge per hour for coding? When I code I make $125/hr. 8 hours of training with at least 8 hours of prep means I'd need to clear $2k to justify running a course (I don't do Ruby training - just as well if $400 is considered pricy!). Assuming space for a day is another $800 (I don't know rates in the city - that may be pretty optimistic), just to break even on time and costs I'd need to make $2800. So at $20 a head, that'd be 140 attendees (which wouldn't fit into a $800 room). 

I don't think $400 is unreasonable for a day of training. If it shaves 3-8 hours (depending on your hourly rate) off of the time it takes you to do things over the next couple of months it'd pay for itself - either for yourself as a contractor or for your boss as an employee.

Also, at $125/hr (or even $50/hr), the biggest cost by far of a day long course is the 8-10 hours I don't get to work/bill. 

Just to ask vik, would *you* be willing to rent a space in Manhattan and take a day off of work/contracting to run a course with a rate of $20/attendee? If so, let me know if you've got any good upcoming courses as if the material is worth a day of my time, the price would be a steal!

Best Wishes,
Peter



On Oct 18, 2011, at 12:16 PM, Vik Venkatraman wrote:

Sorry Joe -

I have to agree with Volkan. I would have been happy to come to your workshop and share it with a bunch of people if it was in the $5-$20 range. $400 seems a bit steep.

vik
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