"New York Philosophy" Message Board › Why Does Mexico Hate America?

Why Does Mexico Hate America?

A former member
Post #: 137
The booing by Mexican haves in a nation filled with many, many have nots, is symptomatic of what is seen in life itself.

It speaks directly to philosophy - indicating the usual resentment failures have for those who are successful. Not for any other reason than the most despicable one of the hating the good for being good.

Mexico is a failed nation. Millions of its citizens have risked life and limb to come to America, and continue to do so - hopefully those living in this great nation are angry with their compatriots and hopefully many Mexicans have a great deep love for America.

Instead of respecting individual rights, Mexico is just like the rest of Central and South America, failed nations that resent the United States, hate capitalism and have a strong tendency towards military dictatorships and socialism.

Mexico is not an ideal neighbor to have. It is unreliable and has scant regard for the security of its borders with the United States.

Mexico is also an arrogant country that views the United States as "the gringo" and instead of learninig from the greatest nation ever, the United States, it sits "South of the border" smoldering and brooding with ugly mawkish envy.

I do not like countries such as Mexico and when they boo America's respresentative I have nothing but pity for them.
A former member
Post #: 12
The booing by Mexican haves in a nation filled with many, many have nots, is symptomatic of what is seen in life itself.

It speaks directly to philosophy - indicating the usual resentment failures have for those who are successful. Not for any other reason than the most despicable one of the hating the good for being good.

Mexico is a failed nation. Millions of its citizens have risked life and limb to come to America, and continue to do so - hopefully those living in this great nation are angry with their compatriots and hopefully many Mexicans have a great deep love for America.

Instead of respecting individual rights, Mexico is just like the rest of Central and South America, failed nations that resent the United States, hate capitalism and have a strong tendency towards military dictatorships and socialism.

Mexico is not an ideal neighbor to have. It is unreliable and has scant regard for the security of its borders with the United States.

Mexico is also an arrogant country that views the United States as "the gringo" and instead of learninig from the greatest nation ever, the United States, it sits "South of the border" smoldering and brooding with ugly mawkish envy.

I do not like countries such as Mexico and when they boo America's respresentative I have nothing but pity for them.

Perhaps, the long history of the US opposing democratically elected governments, supporting dictatorships, covert and not so covert CIA and military actions (coups, assasinations, embargos) which contravene international and domestic law, outright appropriation of territory, the smothering of local markets and producers by multinational corporations, the insistence on the privatization of natural and communal resources, not to mention the 'structural adjustment programs' and its more recent versions carried out by the IMF, WTO, and World Bank throughout Latin America might have something to do with why Mexicans do not like the 'greatest country on earth.'

I would be happy to suggest some reading material.
A former member
Post #: 140
I would be happy to suggest some reading material.
I suggest you read the Pledge of Allegiance.

Lo and behold you are part of the "blame America" crowd? A liberal New Yorker are you then?

Maybe you should consider living in one of these innocent nations?

It is not America's responsibility to police the world. It is the task of a free nation's government to ensure that foreign nations pose no threat. Whatever that entails is valid.

Doing so may require keeping foreign powers out of a specific nation - such as America's greatest enemy today, China.

The measures may not be pretty or ideal.

Foreign policy can be based only on one of two ethics, self-sacrifice [altruism] or rational self-interest.

The former is the ethic of the enemy, the latter of the US Constitution.
John
broughton
Group Organizer
New York, NY
Post #: 165


Perhaps, the long history of the US opposing democratically elected governments, supporting dictatorships, covert and not so covert CIA and military actions (coups, assasinations, embargos) which contravene international and domestic law, outright appropriation of territory, the smothering of local markets and producers by multinational corporations, the insistence on the privatization of natural and communal resources, not to mention the 'structural adjustment programs' and its more recent versions carried out by the IMF, WTO, and World Bank throughout Latin America might have something to do with why Mexicans do not like the 'greatest country on earth.'

I would be happy to suggest some reading material.

Very helpful - that explains why millions have snuck into the USA and want to gain citizenship for themselves and their families.
John
broughton
Group Organizer
New York, NY
Post #: 166
And, more point by point:

Perhaps, the long history of the US opposing democratically elected governments, supporting dictatorships, covert and not so covert CIA and military actions (coups, assasinations, embargos)

The context of the Cold War must be acknowledged here (so seldom done by leftists). The USA had (correctly, IMHO) a foreign policy goal of preventing the USSR from establishing a beachhead of communism here in the Western Hemisphere. Granted, our actions were not perfect, but no nation-states act perfectly. However, overall, our objectives were successfully accomplished (although there has been much back-sliding lately).


which contravene international and domestic law

international law... that is an entire subject in and of itself. The same world bodies that deny genocide in Darfur, that international law?


outright appropriation of territory

examples? like when we gave the Panama Canal away? Name examples of when the USSR or China did likewise, please.


the smothering of local markets and producers by multinational corporations

lot of truth to this. Capitalism is a good thing in general, but there has been exploitation as well.


the insistence on the privatization of natural and communal resources

examples, please. Privatization is a good thing, in general. See: how not to behave like Venezuala.


not to mention the 'structural adjustment programs' and its more recent versions carried out by the IMF, WTO, and World Bank throughout Latin America

yes, how evil of us, the largest funder to the World Bank, to insist on reforms, transparency, and accountability for access to our money. And how evil of us when we do not forgive their debts and give them more money. And how evil of us when we ask why so much of the money is embezzled. It's almost enough to make them think that they should not accept our money.
PiWi
user 3398759
Virginia Water, GB
Post #: 69
The booing by Mexican haves in a nation filled with many, many have nots, is symptomatic of what is seen in life itself.

It speaks directly to philosophy - indicating the usual resentment failures have for those who are successful. Not for any other reason than the most despicable one of the hating the good for being good.

Mexico is a failed nation. Millions of its citizens have risked life and limb to come to America, and continue to do so - hopefully those living in this great nation are angry with their compatriots and hopefully many Mexicans have a great deep love for America.

Instead of respecting individual rights, Mexico is just like the rest of Central and South America, failed nations that resent the United States, hate capitalism and have a strong tendency towards military dictatorships and socialism.

Mexico is not an ideal neighbor to have. It is unreliable and has scant regard for the security of its borders with the United States.

Mexico is also an arrogant country that views the United States as "the gringo" and instead of learninig from the greatest nation ever, the United States, it sits "South of the border" smoldering and brooding with ugly mawkish envy.

I do not like countries such as Mexico and when they boo America's respresentative I have nothing but pity for them.

First, beyond this shameful case of booing...(which btw is nothing new, back in 1993, the last time Mexico hosted the pageant contest, the same thing happened)...

....what are the facts re: Mexican's perception of the US?
. A 2005 Pew Survey shows 40% of Mexican adults would migrate to the US if they had the means and opportunity.
. In 2003, Pew Survey showed 79% of Mexicans thought the growing trade between countries had a positive impact on their country and 76% on their personal situation.
. in 2002, 64% had an overall favorable view of the US (less than the 75% in the UK, slightly more than Germany, France or Russia)
But...
. 65% thought the spread of american ideas and customs was a bad thing (vs 22% a good thing)
. In 2003 74% thought that the US foreign policy doesn't solve world's problems

( links
http://people-press.o...­
http://pewhispanic.or...­)


So the picture of Mexican attitudes towards US/americans is a complex one, and always has been. How can it not be so? The US won a humiliating war against them, in which they gained a good chunk of the Mexican territory. The countries are next door neighbors yet the US is worlds away in terms of size, wealth and power. The 2 economies are more integrated than almost any 2 large economies anywhere in the world, yet the mentalities and cultures are very different.

Not knowing anything else, someone learning about the above situation could predict that there would be a complex mix of intense admiration/yearning as well as resentment among mexicans.

In addition to the above factors, if you add the global rise of anti-americanism since the beginning of the Iraq war (see Pew Research Survey http://pewglobal.org/...­ for more detail), the current situation is not surprising at all.

Now, I'm not saying that it is either smart or justified for Mexicans to criticize the US (certainly not in such a foolish way as booing Miss America). I would probably agree with some of their complaints or criticism of some past and present US policies. On the other hand, whatever part of their resentment is pure envy, shadenfraude, and as you say "hating the good for being good" it has no moral justification.

I will just say that, from a rational self-interest perspective, the US may want to:
- accept that some level of resentment is just unavoidable given the situation with Mexico.
- understand why there is resentment in order to better deal with it (is it really just "hating the good for being good?" or are there many other factors at play here)
- avoid acting in a way that makes things worse, ie "we're the best and the most powerful, who cares what you or anybody else thinks, we're going to do things our way". Frankly you can hardly ask people not to find americans annoyingly arrogant when you say things like "instead of learning from the greatest nation ever, the United States, [Mexico] sits "South of the border" smoldering and brooding with ugly mawkish envy."
A former member
Post #: 148
The booing by Mexican haves in a nation filled with many, many have nots, is symptomatic of what is seen in life itself.

It speaks directly to philosophy - indicating the usual resentment failures have for those who are successful. Not for any other reason than the most despicable one of the hating the good for being good.

Mexico is a failed nation. Millions of its citizens have risked life and limb to come to America, and continue to do so - hopefully those living in this great nation are angry with their compatriots and hopefully many Mexicans have a great deep love for America.

Instead of respecting individual rights, Mexico is just like the rest of Central and South America, failed nations that resent the United States, hate capitalism and have a strong tendency towards military dictatorships and socialism.

Mexico is not an ideal neighbor to have. It is unreliable and has scant regard for the security of its borders with the United States.

Mexico is also an arrogant country that views the United States as "the gringo" and instead of learninig from the greatest nation ever, the United States, it sits "South of the border" smoldering and brooding with ugly mawkish envy.

I do not like countries such as Mexico and when they boo America's respresentative I have nothing but pity for them.

First, beyond this shameful case of booing...(which btw is nothing new, back in 1993, the last time Mexico hosted the pageant contest, the same thing happened)...

....what are the facts re: Mexican's perception of the US?
. A 2005 Pew Survey shows 40% of Mexican adults would migrate to the US if they had the means and opportunity.
. In 2003, Pew Survey showed 79% of Mexicans thought the growing trade between countries had a positive impact on their country and 76% on their personal situation.
. in 2002, 64% had an overall favorable view of the US (less than the 75% in the UK, slightly more than Germany, France or Russia)
But...
. 65% thought the spread of american ideas and customs was a bad thing (vs 22% a good thing)
. In 2003 74% thought that the US foreign policy doesn't solve world's problems

( links
http://people-press.o...­
http://pewhispanic.or...­)


So the picture of Mexican attitudes towards US/americans is a complex one, and always has been. How can it not be so? The US won a humiliating war against them, in which they gained a good chunk of the Mexican territory. The countries are next door neighbors yet the US is worlds away in terms of size, wealth and power. The 2 economies are more integrated than almost any 2 large economies anywhere in the world, yet the mentalities and cultures are very different.

Not knowing anything else, someone learning about the above situation could predict that there would be a complex mix of intense admiration/yearning as well as resentment among mexicans.

In addition to the above factors, if you add the global rise of anti-americanism since the beginning of the Iraq war (see Pew Research Survey http://pewglobal.org/...­ for more detail), the current situation is not surprising at all.

Now, I'm not saying that it is either smart or justified for Mexicans to criticize the US (certainly not in such a foolish way as booing Miss America). I would probably agree with some of their complaints or criticism of some past and present US policies. On the other hand, whatever part of their resentment is pure envy, shadenfraude, and as you say "hating the good for being good" it has no moral justification.

I will just say that, from a rational self-interest perspective, the US may want to:
- accept that some level of resentment is just unavoidable given the situation with Mexico.
- understand why there is resentment in order to better deal with it (is it really just "hating the good for being good?" or are there many other factors at play here)
- avoid acting in a way that makes things worse, ie "we're the best and the most powerful, who cares what you or anybody else thinks, we're going to do things our way". Frankly you can hardly ask people not to find americans annoyingly arrogant when you say things like "instead of learning from the greatest nation ever, the United States, [Mexico] sits "South of the border" smoldering and brooding with ugly mawkish envy."

No PiWi, I will not accept the America is to blame nonsense. If Mexico has an inferiority complex then it is their problem to solve.

It is also not America's "fault" that it is successful. It is not accidental and neither is that Mexico is a failed nation. The people chose it that way.

Let America be America and if Mexico cannot stand that, then that is just too bad.

Mexico should be on its hands and knees grateful that it is not bordering with any other nation with even a fraction of the power of the United States. The people invasions from across the border would have invoked military reactions and hostility that would have brought Mexico to its very lazy knees.
A former member
Post #: 1
First post so bear with me:

"Foreign policy can be based only on one of two ethics, self-sacrifice [altruism] or rational self-interest."

- this seems like a false dilemma. Maybe it comes from a belief that these are the only two basic drives that humans have or something, but insert a case where we're doing something because it's morally right. Doesn't seem to have to be purely altruistic. I also think a lot of supporters of Liberalism (as opposed to Realism) in the international arena would be hesitant to pigeon hole themselves into saying that your building of relationships (economically, for defense etc) are necessarily altruistic or self-interested.

It seems like what PiWi is trying to point out is that "Mexico does not hate America" (per the PEW data). If they hated America we wouldn't have the "people invasions from across the border." I tend to think that may have more to do with our "lazy" Mexican stereotypes than with CIA operations in the 60s (though I think ignoring the fact that central american countries may have lingering resentment regardless of whether we were justified in doing so is probably wishful thinking).

The real point I wanted to make is that I don't think you can jump from booing Ms. America to 'Mexico hates America'. which I guess is supposed to be an instance of how it is a failed country that calls us gringos and don't recognize their inferiority so we should pity them? [I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, that seems to be the sense of the first post]

And for what it's worth, clearly I'm glad to be in the US rather than mexico (if we had some more southern food up here I'd be even happier)
A former member
Post #: 154
First post so bear with me:

"Foreign policy can be based only on one of two ethics, self-sacrifice [altruism] or rational self-interest."

- this seems like a false dilemma. Maybe it comes from a belief that these are the only two basic drives that humans have or something, but insert a case where we're doing something because it's morally right.

D-J: It is not arbitrary, it is fact. Either foreign policy is decided on a sacrificial basis or one of sel-interest. There is no other way.

Doesn't seem to have to be purely altruistic. I also think a lot of supporters of Liberalism (as opposed to Realism) in the international arena would be hesitant to pigeon hole themselves into saying that your building of relationships (economically, for defense etc) are necessarily altruistic or self-interested.

DJ: Whether it is a mess - a mix - it is still based on the two ethics. If not, then elaborate what other ethics there are. There are no others.

It seems like what PiWi is trying to point out is that "Mexico does not hate America" (per the PEW data). If they hated America we wouldn't have the "people invasions from across the border." I tend to think that may have more to do with our "lazy" Mexican stereotypes than with CIA operations in the 60s (though I think ignoring the fact that central american countries may have lingering resentment regardless of whether we were justified in doing so is probably wishful thinking).

DJ: I have had my say.

The real point I wanted to make is that I don't think you can jump from booing Ms. America to 'Mexico hates America'. which I guess is supposed to be an instance of how it is a failed country that calls us gringos and don't recognize their inferiority so we should pity them? [I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, that seems to be the sense of the first post]

D-J: You are entitled to your view, however, also ask Mexicans living in the US, and you will discover resentment for the US.

And for what it's worth, clearly I'm glad to be in the US rather than Mexico (if we had some more southern food up here I'd be even happier)

D-J: Personally I would rather have some deep Southern weather [not the tornadoes or the hurricanes of course]. The New York City climate is just horrible.
A former member
Post #: 2
I don't think that the self-interest/self-sacrifice distinction is arbitrary so much as I want to open up more space at least for something like benevolence which I don't think fits particularly nicely into that picture (I'm not saying it can't fit at all, just not nicely). I'm also not sure if at bottom this particularly disagrees with what you're getting at.

I'm thinking something like this: self-interest seems to refer more to whether an action should be considered subjectively rational (which is why I assume you wrote 'rational self-interest' up top). But this leaves open what an individual's interests are. Maybe someone wants to get into an internalist/externalist debate about what is in someone's interest, but from the standpoint of whether her action is rational what seems most important are either (1) her fundamental values or (2) what she believes her fundamental values to be [I'm pretty happy with either of these]. All that is to say, it seems like most things that would intuitively fall into the category of 'self-sacrifice' would be done for the sake of one of these fundamental values. That means that the self-sacrificial action is straightforwardly rational or self-interested.

Seems like a better way to characterize actions may be in terms of what the action is for the sake of. If I'm doing something for the sake of myself it's selfish (and this doesn't mean bad). If I do something for the sake of someone else, it's benevolent (which may or may not involve self-sacrifice). Given that both of those acts are based on my values it seems both can be rational.

I'm also fairly happy saying that we perform a lot of acts that are hard to categorize all together or at least aim at intermediate ends that are worthwhile in themselves.

Hopefully it's clear at this point why I don't particularly think this goes against much of the spirit of the iniital claim.

It also may be worthwhile to wonder whether governments or organizations can in any important sense act intentionally.
Powered by mvnForum

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy