"New York Philosophy" Message Board › Immortality

Immortality

A former member
Post #: 11
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You are quite simply talking rubbish.


I really enjoy your childish replies to things you can't understand
unlike yourself ,I know exactly what I am talking about. You probably would be able to see others ideas clearer if you weren't so wound up in your own... bound by our own limitations

Cause and Effect. Any act, whether deemed irrational or not could lead to another act whether we deem the effect as irrational or not because all acts bring about consequences. To bring order where there seems to be chaos to us, to find sanity in an insane situation.To bring things into a balance and into some type of identifiable and acceptable and workable harmony

I prefer to think openly than to regurgitate a poorly constructed pseudo philosophy.

P.S. I have read plenty of Ayn Rand, her writings and her novels an I have read Leonard Peikoff as well .

Further I find it quite ironic that such an emotionally wrought and charged individual as Ayn Rand would give birth to a philosophy and refer to it as objectivism
A former member
Post #: 12
Well, if you're a passive observer of the world, then I believe that's true. But if you're a scientist, or a technologist, or an artist, then living longer means more time to explore, to explore deeper, to discover more. The world doesn't get old, because the more you discover, the more unexplored territory you also discover. And each day is different from the
previous, because you have found somewhere new, and have made today different.



Passive or not . I think that all time in the universe would not give you such a greater understanding and growth and creativity beyond what I would suspects your capabilities, would allow you ..this is all fantasy conjecture by the way.. depending on the limits and boundaries of your own abilities to comprehend. appreciate and create. At some time I still think boredom would eventually slink into your life, the wonders of life in some sense would not seem so wonderful any longer. You may become a prisoner of endless time. I think what gives life greater importance is the fact that we do cease to exist consciously at least.

How do you know each day will be different, what will change save the perception in your own mind..again govern and bound by our own foresight and limitations?
A former member
Post #: 336
The reason that I asked this Allen was because it's a limitation on our life. I thought it would be philosophical to ponder about it.
A former member
Post #: 195
P.S. I have read plenty of Ayn Rand, her writings and her novels an I have read Leonard Peikoff as well .

Further I find it quite ironic that such an emotionally wrought and charged individual as Ayn Rand would give birth to a philosophy and refer to it as objectivism.


If you have read as you state, your second paragraph dismisses the first.

Why?
Because it is evident that you misunderstand the name Objectivism, so either you have comprehended nothing or have not read.

Your criticism is definitely weak because the epistemology and metaphysics of Objectivism are strong and cannot be dismissed. Dismiss them as you have and you reject science.

As far as I am concerned you are merely another critic of Objectivism who is merely repeating the usual anti-Objectivist bromides established by others.
Kevin D. K.
kdkeck
Newport Beach, CA
Post #: 28
I think that all time in the universe would not give you such a greater understanding and growth and creativity beyond what I would suspects your capabilities, would allow you ..this is all fantasy conjecture by the way.. depending on the limits and boundaries of your own abilities to comprehend.
I am not yet aware of any limits on what a person can comprehend except within the constraints of time. In other words, I think anyone (who is not extremely mentally handicapped) can come to learn any idea or art, given enough time, and the only real "limitation" of individuals is that some will take much longer to learn a given idea than other individuals will.
At some time I still think boredom would eventually slink into your life, the wonders of life in some sense would not seem so wonderful any longer.
My point is that "the" wonders of life are not static--that the more one learns, the more wonders one will discover.
You may become a prisoner of endless time.
Well, I can understand that worry, that concern. But it is impossible to become such a prisoner, as long as it remains within your power to end your life at any time.

So, yes, if someone ever offers to "upload" you into a computer system where you would then be effectively immortal, I would strongly suggest that you first insist on retaining this power, which you have today, to end your new life, if you ever get sick and tired of it. Or at least to "go to sleep", or "check out", in some way, even if it's not really "death" in the sense of being irreversible.
How do you know each day will be different, what will change save the perception in your own mind..again govern and bound by our own foresight and limitations?
Save the perception in my own mind? Why should that not be sufficient? It is no small thing, after all, for the perceptions in one's own mind to evolve. Anyone who has ever experienced any kind of revelation or epiphany of any sort, should be able to recognize this: objectively the world is exactly the same after the revelation or epiphany as it was before, but subjectively it will have changed dramatically. And not in a hollow or trivial way, but in a very significant way, as when one suddenly can perceive potentials and possibilities they were blind to before, their world has effectively grown, changed, even at the same time as it is true that the world itself has not changed at all.

And it also bears pointing out that one need not rely only on oneself to generate new ideas, new perspectives, new insights. Already we have 6.5 billion other souls in this world we can look to for new ideas, and the population continues to grow. Even someone who believes that hardly any of them will ever have anything of value to offer them, surely will still have met some who have in fact inspired them, enlivened them, sparked their imagination. A world in which you were the only survivor might be a bit more likely to grow boring, but in a world full of so many artists, scientists, and philosophers, I myself would not expect to ever have that problem.
A former member
Post #: 337
As one "anti-objectivist" I like to state my view on it if I'm allowed.

Now one person might label it as anti-objectivism and another person might just say there's absolutely nothing wrong in believing in a principle as long as you don't hold it as a fact. For example in expecting somebody else to hold dear that same principle to.

Okay enough said of my anti objectivist rant.
A former member
Post #: 14
The reason that I asked this Allen was because it's a limitation on our life. I thought it would be philosophical to ponder about it.

But that is merely my point, that it is this limitation of our lives (life) that moves us. including existential angst. It can be our measurement, our yard stick of what we achieve and how we view ourselves and others, what we contirbue to society in the time and manner we choose or donot choose to contribute, and enrich and enhance, or do nothing of the sort, how we fill our needs, to do something and to give meaning and purpose to our life( lives)

time is a wastin'" with so much time (immortality ) on our hands will we procrastinate or move forward? What woulld happen to time? Would we be even conscious of time? Would there be any time to mark?
A former member
Post #: 15
I am not yet aware of any limits on what a person can comprehend except within the constraints of time. In other words, I think anyone (who is not extremely mentally handicapped) can come to learn any idea or art, given enough time, and the only real "limitation" of individuals is that some will take much longer to learn a given idea than other individuals will.

I think that individuals have different levels of aptitude when it comes to different abilities. All the time in the universe isn't going to make me a great accomplished painter or artist beyond my own innate skills or give me the ability to understand quantum physics or develop a rote memory if I don?t possess the abstract ability to do so. Though I could be wrong. I'm not a neuroscientist

1.
My point is that "the" wonders of life are not static--that the more one learns, the more wonders one will discover.

I think the universe has it limits, but again I could be wrong if the universe is limitless then I may agree with you
1.
Well, I can understand that worry, that concern. But it is impossible to become such a prisoner, as long as it remains within your power to end your life at any time.

Yes, so I guess so. We would have to define our ideas of immortality. It would vary from individual

So, yes, if someone ever offers to "upload" you into a computer system where you would then be effectively immortal, I would strongly suggest that you first insist on retaining this power, which you have today, to end your new life, if you ever get sick and tired of it. Or at least to "go to sleep", or "check out", in some way, even if it's not really "death" in the sense of being irreversible.

1.
Save the perception in my own mind? Why should that not be sufficient? It is no small thing, after all, for the perceptions in one's own mind to evolve. Anyone who has ever experienced any kind of revelation or epiphany of any sort, should be able to recognize this: objectively the world is exactly the same after the revelation or epiphany as it was before, but subjectively it will have changed dramatically. And not in a hollow or trivial way, but in a very significant way, as when one suddenly can perceive potentials and possibilities they were blind to before, their world has effectively grown, changed, even at the same time as it is true that the world itself has not changed at all.

This would depend on what would hold thee greater interest for you, the subjective or the objective, and being able to identify it

And it also bears pointing out that one need not rely only on oneself to generate new ideas, new perspectives, new insights. Already we have 6.5 billion other souls in this world we can look to for new ideas, and the population continues to grow. Even someone who believes that hardly any of them will ever have anything of value to offer them, surely will still have met some who have in fact inspired them, enlivened them, sparked their imagination. A world in which you were the only survivor might be a bit more likely to grow boring, but in a world full of so many artists, scientists, and philosophers, I myself would not expect to ever have that problem.

But you have no reason or empirical data to believe, to prove, that any of these ideas are new.willl continue to be new, or fresh and endless..the key word here is endless
A former member
Post #: 16
yes I guess we would have to define the immortality we speak of. Will we need to eat, procreate ,and how they will effect out senses? What about the evolutionary process ... will it cease? If we no longer need to eat or seek shelter or food and the things that we need to survive would they merely become vestiges of our past? Where would the fun be in that since I can't imagine developing art with out our senses... the very senses we needed to survive when we are mortal?
A former member
Post #: 338
But that is merely my point, that it is this limitation of our lives (life) that moves us. including existential angst. It can be our measurement, our yard stick of what we achieve and how we view ourselves and others, what we contirbue to society in the time and manner we choose or donot choose to contribute, and enrich and enhance, or do nothing of the sort, how we fill our needs, to do something and to give meaning and purpose to our life( lives)

time is a wastin'" with so much time (immortality ) on our hands will we procrastinate or move forward? What woulld happen to time? Would we be even conscious of time? Would there be any time to mark?
That's very interesting about what you said about the moving forward part. I would say it can be a yes and no but more of a no. That depends if our lives depend on time or survival.

What would happen to time? I'd think we still be conscious of it and there'd still be time to mark.
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