Open Forum --- Issues in Humanism

  • September 7, 2013 · 1:30 PM
  • This location is shown only to members

Meet and Greet at 1:30 pm. Meeting begins at 2 pm.

Open Forum: Pete Anderson, HAOC president, has proposed the general topic and questions below for discussion:

  • More on Definitions of Humanism.
  • Is Humanism a Complete Life Philosophy?
  • What about Ethics and Moral Values?
  • Meaning and Purpose?
  • Civil Rights and Human Dignity?

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As usual our program allows for a Q&A period following the presentation.

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  • A former member
    A former member

    Virginia,
    I agree. ..mostly. However,
    do you think my chances of converting (those I love) from Christianity will improve, if I confront them with challenges about their god? Or, do you think saying, "There is no god, so get on with life." is the better approach?

    September 9, 2013

  • marina y.

    Yes Virginia! Very succinct. Thank you.

    September 9, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Morality? ? ?
    One more thought...

    Jacki and I were talking at the breakfast table. I put forward another thought that we had fun with.

    You look into a room and you see a "90 pound weakling" who is going to rape a five-year-old girl. There's no danger to you. In fact, you can just yell to stop it. So of course you stop it.
    On the other hand, all knowing, all present, all mighty God chooses this action;
    He leaves the door closed, and just lets it happen. So, who is more moral, you or God?

    When I shared that with my mother, she said I was going to talk my way out of my salvation. Jacki also beat me up on this one. Ha ha! Wayne

    1 · September 8, 2013

    • Virginia B.

      The way I see things, one does not need to ask questions such as the one you pose, since there is no God. The worthwhile question is whether you or I are acting morally. I think one can twist one's mind like a crazy pretzel by trying to figure out the contradictions inherent in a mythical being created by mortals.

      1 · September 9, 2013

    • Juan B.

      In one of Plato's dialogs, the Euthyphro, Socrates points to a dilemma for theistic morality. If God defines moral good by any and all of his choices, then moral good is arbitrary. Whatever God chooses is good even it is that the the child should suffer at the hands of the rapist. On the other hand, if God chooses what is morally good, then moral good is independent of God; and you don't need God to explain moral good. God would never allow the rapist to act. But this brings up the problem of evil: Why does an omnipotent, perfectly good God allow so much evil and suffering? But that's another problem.

      1 · September 9, 2013

  • Andreas G

    Well, Wayne, your mother did warn you! :)

    Yes, god is purported to be omniscient, omnipotent, and all good and is involved in our affairs. It's argued that god cannot be all of the above and still allow sin and suffering to exist.

    September 8, 2013

  • Andreas G

    I enjoyed meeting you all. Interesting and intelligent conversation. I think I will be out of town next month, but I look forward to attending again.

    September 8, 2013

  • Juan B.

    Humanism is a fine philosophy for many of us who don't demand simple answers to hard questions, answers to all questions, or a universal and finished philosophy of life. Humanism is an ongoing process in thought, action, and value judgements.

    1 · September 8, 2013

  • Juan B.

    Fair discussion of various issues concerning the humanistic perspective and philosophy.

    September 8, 2013

  • Virginia B.

    The open forum had intelligent and stimulating discussion, engaging most of the participants. I enjoyed it very much.

    September 8, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    (last part)

    A similar story can be found in Genesis 26. This time it is Isaac in Gerar (again), under King Abimelech (again). Isaac pretends that Rebekah is his sister, not his wife (again). As usual, the "hottie wife" is cause for concern. Isaac prospers quickly.

    The repeated parallels are very suspicious to me. The general oral traditions of a "hottie wife" (being passed off as a sister), specifics like the land of Gerar, a King Abimelech, a guard named Phichol and an Israeli Patriarch seem to have been confused and intermingled, making those scriptures absolutely unreliable. Just my impression.

    August 30, 2013

    • Juan B.

      Wayne, I'm more familiar with the New Testament than with the Old Testament (or the Jewish Bible part of the Xtian Bible,as some say). My interests have to do with critical and historical questions regarding the Gospel stories and start of Christianity. But I do delve into the OT occasionally and am often surprised at the stories and the type of actions that OT writers saw as pleasing to God. It is an eye-opener; and most believing Christians either have to dismiss as ineffective (after the NT) or are forced to give interpretations and readings that change the meaning altogether.

      1 · August 31, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    (continued)

    Abram collects a dowry of servants and animals in exchange for Sarai's hand in marriage. Sarai becomes a wife to Pharaoh, so God punishes Pharaoh for his sin of adultery. Pharaoh returns Sarai to Abram and orders them to leave Egypt. Abram keeps the stuff. He leaves Egypt a big financial winner.

    Another story is found in Genesis 20. This story has Abraham in Gerar, under the rule of King Abimelech. Abraham pretends that Sarah, his wife, is his sister. So Abimelech hopes to take Sarah as a wife. In this case, God apparently stops the process before Sarah had conjugal relations with the king. Sarah is returned to Abraham. Abraham again gets goodies.

    (continued)

    August 30, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Hey guys! I thought I would share my latest article with you. Your critiques are welcome. "SILLY BIBLE"

    Oral tradition has brought us what I consider to be silly Bible. There are three very similar stories in Genesis. Each time a powerful leader is tricked into thinking a Patriarch's wife is not a wife, but a sister. There is desire to marry the already married woman, then surprise!...the error is made known, concessions are made, and there is a happy ending.

    The first story is found in Genesis 12. Abram moves to Egypt because of famine. His wife, Sarai, is a "hottie", so Abram asks her to say that she is his sister, since the Egyptians might kill him. Then she would be available for marriage...just as David later engineered to Bathsheba's husband.

    (CONTINUED)

    August 30, 2013

  • Chifra H.

    I tried to find you last month!! I entered the parking lot with the address indicated and I walked around the Water District Building, tried all the doors, rang any bells I found and ALL TO NO AVAIL!!
    Where are you?
    I don't want to repeat that disheartening adventure again!!!
    I am coming from Corona so it is a distance. I exited the 5 Freeway at Sand Canyon and headed in the direction of Kaiser Permanente. When I saw the correct address I did as I described above. You can email me at [masked].
    Thanks!

    August 27, 2013

  • A former member
    A former member

    Hi guys! Does the group ever discuss bible? I'd enjoy sharing my concerns. Maybe debate a pastor?

    August 24, 2013

    • Juan B.

      You're welcome to start any discussion relevant to humanism on our message board. Some members might have much to say on the Bible. I have my views and perspective on parts of the Bible. ---- Also, at the monthly meeting of Humanist Assoc. of OC, we discuss just about anything, and have had some programs on aspects of such scripture as the Bible. We have members of the HAOC who have an interest in such topics.

      August 25, 2013

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