North Texas Objectivist Society (NTOS) Message Board › An Objectivist Coffee Shop -- or other name for a new gathering place?

An Objectivist Coffee Shop -- or other name for a new gathering place?

A former member
Post #: 68
I've heard discussions at Todd's place before about having some sort of meeting place for Objectivists to go to. I've suggested a "lodge" in the past, similar to what the Free Masons have. Another possibility I've thought of is a coffee shop. I don't know how far you could go without getting sued by the estate of Ayn Rand, but you could name it something like "The Fountainhead" or "The Atlantian" (I don't think those names would run afoul of the copyright laws?) (I've been to a bar in Atlanta, Ga called "The Fountainhead", so I suppose that is okay, unless they just hadn't gotten caught yet.)

You could put a TV in there on the wall, and periodically play various things that would be of interest to Objectivists (once again, not sure that that is legal given the copyright laws). You could have a lending library of books and taped lectures of interest to Randians (borrowed after paying a deposit).

Crazy? Maybe, but I'm brain storming here.



Todd:
I edited to broaden title of discussion topic.
Old Toad
OldToad
Group Organizer
Dallas, TX
Post #: 167
Hi Dean,

Thanks for bringing this idea up on our message board.

I have been wondering how, by analogy, other organizations have selected names for such gathering places, and for our reference I looked up the etymology on http://www.etymonline...­ of the following words: “CHURCH, TEMPLE, MOSQUE, HALL, and LODGE. (Reproduced for convenient reference below.) It seems a common root for these is “house” and/or “place of worship.” It also seems to take centuries for a name to develop and become widely accepted, often involving translations and shortening of awkward and longer descriptive language.

While most of these are religious analogies, one of the definitions of TEMPLE seemed interesting, but it still may have too many religious associations and perhaps is too formal?
“5. special place: an institution or building considered as a guardian of, or reservation for, a particular activity -- a temple of learning” http://encarta.msn.co...­

The word HALL is more generic, e.g., "3. building with large public room: a building with a large room used for public events or activities such as meetings, entertainment, and exhibitions." http://encarta.msn.co...­

For our social gatherings, Julia and I originally started with “RANCH” – both literally and figuratively. I like one of the derivations, which is “from Sp. rancho, originally, ‘group of people who eat together,’ from ranchear ‘to lodge or station,’ …” See full etymology, below. On the other hand, while it fits our particular circumstances and activities, the word seems too informal for any wider use?

Lately, I have been leaning toward something more particularly significant to Objectivists, preferably a word used in Ayn Rand’s novels. While Ayn Rand wrote somewhat favorably about a “TEMPLE” in the Fountainhead, how about the word “GULCH” from Atlas Shrugged? With that loose reference, the word GULCH would seem to connote the sense of society we are looking for. As it is a relatively unusual word without other connotations, it could be used to cover a broad range of activities, from informal socializing (e.g., eating together, drinking coffee together) to more formal activities (e.g., housing a library, hosting speakers, hosting discussion groups.)

What do others think? Should we start gathering at the "Gulch"?

-- Todd



Selected etymologies from http://www.etymonline...­ are reproduced below:

“CHURCH”
O.E. cirice "church," from W.Gmc. *kirika, from Gk. kyriake (oikia) "Lord's (house)," from kyrios "ruler, lord." For vowel evolution, see bury. Gk. kyriakon (adj.) "of the Lord" was used of houses of Christian worship since c.300, especially in the East, though it was less common in this sense than ekklesia or basilike. An example of the direct Gk.-to-Gmc. progress of many Christian words, via the Goths; it was probably used by W.Gmc. people in their pre-Christian period. Also picked up by Slavic, via Gmc. (cf. O.Slav. criky, Rus. cerkov). Romance and Celtic languages use variants of L. ecclesia. See

“TEMPLE”
"building for worship," O.E. tempel, from L. templum "piece of ground consecrated for the taking of auspices, building for worship," of uncertain signification. Commonly referred either to PIE base *tem- "to cut," on notion of "place reserved or cut out," or to PIE base *temp- "to stretch," on notion of cleared space in front of an altar. Fig. sense of "any place regarded as occupied by divine presence" was in O.E. Applied to Jewish synagogues from 1598.

“MOSQUE”
c.1400, moseak, probably from M.Fr. mosquée, from It. moschea, from Sp. mesquita (modern mezquita), from Arabic masjid "temple, place of worship," from sajada "he worshipped" + prefix ma- denoting "place." In M.E. as muskey, moseache, etc.

"HALL"
O.E. heall "place covered by a roof, spacious roofed residence, temple," from P.Gmc. *khallo "to cover, hide" (cf. O.H.G. halla, Ger. halle, Du. hal, O.N. höll "hall;" O.E. hell, Goth. halja "hell"), from PIE base *kel- "to hide, conceal" (see cell). Sense of "entry, vestibule" evolved 17c., at a time when the doors opened onto the main room of a house. Older sense preserved in town hall, music hall, etc., and in university dormitory names. Hall of Fame first attested 1901, in ref. to Columbia College.

“LODGE”
1231, from O.Fr. loge "arbor, covered walk" (Mod.Fr. "hut, cabin, lodge box at a theater"), from Frank. *laubja "shelter" (cognate with O.H.G. louba "porch, gallery," Ger. Laube "bower, arbor"), likely originally "shelter of foliage," from the root of leaf. "Hunter's cabin" sense is first recorded 1465. Sense of "local branch of a society" is first recorded 1686, from 14c. logge "workshop of masons."

“RANCH”
1808, "country house," from Amer.Sp. rancho "small farm, group of farm huts," from Sp. rancho, originally, "group of people who eat together," from ranchear "to lodge or station," from O.Fr. ranger "install in position," from rang "row, line" (see rank (n.)). Sense of "large cattle-breeding estate" is from 1831. Meaning "single-story split-level house" is from 1960.

“GULCH”
1832, Amer.Eng., perhaps from obsolete or dial. Eng. gulsh "sink in" (of land), "gush out" (of water), from M.E. gulchen "to gush forth, to drink greedily."
Santiago Valenzue...
sanjavalen
Dallas, TX
Post #: 44
Though I am somewhat poor, I would be willing to donate time and money to such a project. I may not have a lot in the money department but, putting this stuff together always take some labor of some sort.

It'd be nice to have a place to go out to where I can be sure anyone who comes in is at least interested in Ayn Rand and agrees somewhat with her. Usually I just stay home, for the reason that no one out there is very interesting (commies!)

Anyway, I think we should take a clue from <i>The Art of Fiction</i> and have the name game take place either at the end or when something appropriate occurs to someone in the process of building it up. Naming something nebulous and nonexistant is hard - you don't have an actual <i>thing</i> there to judge if any particular idea is appropriate or not. So I think as we build it up or when its completed would be a more appropriate time to talk about what it should be called.

Lets get this rolling, I like the idea a lot.
A former member
Post #: 72
Actually, I'm now thinking that you'd just call a coffee shop: "The Objectivist". I don't think there would be any copyright or trademark issues associated with using that word in that context. Or, maybe "Objectivity" (that sound's really sheik and trendy too).biggrin
Sherry
SherryTX
Plano, TX
Post #: 46
Actually, I'm now thinking that you'd just call a coffee shop: "The Objectivist". I don't think there would be any copyright or trademark issues associated with using that word in that context. Or, maybe "Objectivity" (that sound's really sheik and trendy too).biggrin

And underneath the sign you can have this motto:
"A place to come and check your premises."

biggrin
Lathanar
Lathanar
Dallas, TX
Post #: 16
Gulch is a mulitplayer map on Halo. Just thought I'd throw that in, as I don't know if that would actually attract FPS fans, but it was the first thing that popped into my head.

Travis
A former member
Post #: 76
In all seriousness, I think that the only way a "mom and pop" coffee shop can survive against big chains like Starbucks is by carving out a "niche market". I have some clients that own a coffee shopover in Plano. They are Chinese, and most of the other patrons are Chinese. They sell drinks that tend to be popular in that culture (in addition to regular coffee), and they seem to do quite well. Similarly, an Objectivist coffee shop might have enough of a niche to survive too.

That reminds me, when I was living in Tallahassee Florida, there was a coffee shop called Aristotle's Coffee Garage. I started going there, of course, and actually met other Objectivists there that must have had the same good associations with the name (that and the fact that there weren't that many coffee shops in Tallahassee Florida for us intellectuals to hang out at.)

As for some sort of structure or gathering place that is dedicated to Objectivism, I still prefer the term: "Lodge". It doesn't have any religious associations, so I prefer it.
Old Toad
OldToad
Group Organizer
Dallas, TX
Post #: 171
Hi Dean:

I like the idea that we are talking about the possibility of having a building dedicated to Objectivist functions and events.

In another discussion thread, Tom Miovas wrote: “let's keep this board as a beacon for those searching for others interested in Objectivism and Ayn Rand.” http://aynrand.meetup...­

I agree with the sentiment Tom expressed, and I think it would apply to the name of a building dedicated for use by those interested in Objectivism. The name of such a building should serve as a beacon.

I looked up one dictionary definition of the word "lodge," which is reproduced below. In most senses, the word connotes a very rustic, comfortable place to stay. In most senses, the word “lodge” is not inspiring.

In contrast, the word "hall" is frequently used for a broader range of meetings or events, often for more formal gatherings, such as a town hall or a university building, but at the same time includes the idea that social events can take place there. The disadvantage is that even if it is more inspiring, it is perhaps too generic.

Any other ideas?

-- Todd


http://encarta.msn.co...­

lodge
noun
Definitions:

1. country building: a cabin or other building in the country providing temporary accommodations, e.g. as a vacation home or a temporary shelter for campers, walkers, skiers, or hunters

2. travel building in vacation complex: the main building or all the buildings in a vacation complex, usually providing meals, overnight accommodations and other guest services. Lodges, including park lodges, hunting lodges, and ski lodges are usually located in or near mountains or tourist attractions.

3. inn or hotel: a large house or hotel

4. branch of union or organization: a local branch or chapter of a fraternal organization or union

5. meeting hall: a hall or other meeting place used by a branch of a society

6. Native North American dwelling: a dwelling traditionally used by Native North American people, e.g. a wigwam, hogan, or longhouse

7. small gatekeeper's house: in Britain, a small house in the grounds of a large country house or park, usually near the main gate, traditionally occupied by a gatekeeper, gardener, or estate worker

8. beaver's den: a dome-shaped structure with an underwater entrance built by a beaver
A former member
Post #: 79
"hall" works for me.

Hi Dean:

I like the idea that we are talking about the possibility of having a building dedicated to Objectivist functions and events.

In another discussion thread, Tom Miovas wrote: “let's keep this board as a beacon for those searching for others interested in Objectivism and Ayn Rand.” http://aynrand.meetup...­

I agree with the sentiment Tom expressed, and I think it would apply to the name of a building dedicated for use by those interested in Objectivism. The name of such a building should serve as a beacon.

I looked up one dictionary definition of the word "lodge," which is reproduced below. In most senses, the word connotes a very rustic, comfortable place to stay. In most senses, the word “lodge” is not inspiring.

In contrast, the word "hall" is frequently used for a broader range of meetings or events, often for more formal gatherings, such as a town hall or a university building, but at the same time includes the idea that social events can take place there. The disadvantage is that even if it is more inspiring, it is perhaps too generic.

Any other ideas?

-- Todd


http://encarta.msn.co...­

lodge
noun
Definitions:

1. country building: a cabin or other building in the country providing temporary accommodations, e.g. as a vacation home or a temporary shelter for campers, walkers, skiers, or hunters

2. travel building in vacation complex: the main building or all the buildings in a vacation complex, usually providing meals, overnight accommodations and other guest services. Lodges, including park lodges, hunting lodges, and ski lodges are usually located in or near mountains or tourist attractions.

3. inn or hotel: a large house or hotel

4. branch of union or organization: a local branch or chapter of a fraternal organization or union

5. meeting hall: a hall or other meeting place used by a branch of a society

6. Native North American dwelling: a dwelling traditionally used by Native North American people, e.g. a wigwam, hogan, or longhouse

7. small gatekeeper's house: in Britain, a small house in the grounds of a large country house or park, usually near the main gate, traditionally occupied by a gatekeeper, gardener, or estate worker

8. beaver's den: a dome-shaped structure with an underwater entrance built by a beaver

Dan
dbclawyer
Allen, TX
Post #: 20
The Beaver Den. Hmmm. . . . . . .
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