North Texas Objectivist Society (NTOS) Message Board › Noodlefood on the Libertarian Party

Noodlefood on the Libertarian Party

Santiago Valenzue...
sanjavalen
Dallas, TX
Post #: 203
This is a little old, but I think its relevant to many discussions had here about the LP, and of course not every had read noodlefood this far back.

http://www.dianahsieh...­

It took me a while to come to these conclusions, and I don't expect automatic or immediate agreement with my views. But I hope my short fable helps illuminate my reasons for holding them. As a physician, I found that by translating these abstract philosophical issues into a more concrete medical context the issues became much clearer to me, and I hope they will for you, too.

Chris Jones
gearjammer351
Dallas, TX
Post #: 76
Santiago,
I have been somewhat active in the LP for a few years and I can certainly validate your concern about it. Prior to that I was a pretty devout Republican. I really do not like the party hold on politics, and that issue is multifaceted. Unfortunately, (and you have called me a pragmatist for this before) this is the system which exists.
I am unhappy about the way some things are, and I am concerned with how reasonable people, like those of us in NTOS, can make a difference in the way our government is operated.
Since you and I have had this discussion before, both here and in person, I do have a question to ask you about it. You like to point out that the Libertarian party has no solid philosophical basis, but can you tell me what is the solid philosophical foundation of the Republican or Democratic parties?
Since election laws require a party affiliation to even run for many state or national offices, and unwritten social laws seem to require a party affiliation, how else could one run for office without choosing a party? When Republicans and Democrats both seem determined to increase taxes and spending it is hard to make a valid choice when one opposes those ideas.
Revolutions, both violent and peaceful, are rare. Changes are usually brought about gradually- one small piece at a time. I could at least have some confidence that Libertarians would make progress in the right direction. It is true that the LP is a coalition of people with different perspectives, but the party goals are at least in the direction I want things to go. You seem very concerned about purity of motivation, and I don't fault you for idealism, but standing outside the gates slinging pebbles at the walls of the establishment is quite ineffective generally.
A former member
Post #: 52
Paul (the author) makes four good points.

The first point demonstrates the importance of philosophical integrity. How can you stand for Liberty when you don't even know what Liberty is? But it's too simplistic. Liberty can be the freedom have an abortion or the freedom to be born of a mother who wanted to abort you .... ???

Paul's first problem is that he tries to reduce an entire political philosophy to a single word: Liberty. The Libertarian definition of said word is that liberty exists when "individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others." Of course if people have different values then they'll give you different answers when you ask them what liberty means to them in particular.

Points 2 through 4 sort of run together. He demonstrates the variety of moral justification in #2, then he points out in #3 that having different moral justifications = having NOT the same moral justifications (for you slower readers who may have missed that). #4 is the "big" duh: They don't seem to care.

And why should they? I don't really care enough about the garbage man to make sure he's hauling the trash off based on an objective moral philosophy, I just want the trash to go away. It's the same in politics. The best government would be run by objectivists, but until we convert enough people to Objectivism we're going to have to deal with the fact that it's run by christians.

The reality of politics on which I base my decisions is, like the trash man, what they accomplish. The LP isn't any more subjective than the DP or the RP, but their platform makes more sense. Weren't the DP and RP platforms posted up here a while back?

Anyway I agree with Chris. Libertarians aren't perfect but they are a step in the right direction.
A former member
Post #: 144
Having watched the LP convention for many elections cycles I can make the following observations:

1) Libertarians like role-playing games. There are typically a few campiagns running at the back of the convention hall.

2) Most (90%) Libertarians have not met, spoken to, or in some cases even looked at a women who was not on the Internet (usually in Canada) or in a magazine.

3) Libertarians think tanks do 5d10 worth of damage per round. (See item 1 above).

4) Libertarians are against copyright and intellectual property protections. Pick up most any issue of Reason magazine and find out for yourself.

5) Libertarians think EVERQUEST and World of Warcarft are real places. (related to item 1).

6) Libertarians think the Internet created a "new" economy forgetting that unlike EVERQUEST, paint, toiletpaper, wood, cars, etc... are really REAL.

These are just a few observations.

"The best government would be run by objectivists..." Interesting. Why do you think that? I don't personally know, either directly or indirectly, any Objectivist capable of leading the country. Do you? Why should Christians not make effective leaders?

At a recent lecture a prominent Objectivist intellectual suggested continued investment in Russia! A country that is CLEARLY moving in a fascist direction and yet denoucned investment in China because the government is still nominally communist despite that FACT they are moving in the direction of individual rights and free markets. If THIS is an example of the type of political leadership we can expect from Objectivists then something isn't right. There is an irreconcilable incongruity here. Knowing quite a few Objectivists I imagine an Objectivist party convention to be spent arguing over the meaning of the word "IS". Although I think with the passing of the "old guard" and having some younger leaders with fire in their belly pushing things forward we'll get over that distasteful situation.

Now if you don't mind, I have to get back to chatting with my girlfriend...in Canada.

Pytheus
Karen Gainey
skgainey
Sulphur, OK
Post #: 4
NO!! Say it isn't so!!

WOW (World of Warcraft for all you noobs out there) IS a real place! I spend many a waking hour there! I have seen DannyDevito and ChuckNorris dueling outside of Ironforge (Danny won but I think he hit below the belt).

You know, I think I did see Libertarians there. They were the guild that had trouble taking down Ragnaros. Didn't they disband??

This is too much. I have to go check. And my priest needs more mana biscuits - she ate the last one earlier during her fight with the lobstrosities. Or were they in the Dark Tower? Please don't tell me that isn't a real place either *sob*

*grins*
Karen
Sherry
SherryTX
Plano, TX
Post #: 606
Karen,
Horde or Alliance?

I don't play WoW - but I have known plenty of addicts hahah biggrin

I can understand why a lot of Objectivists do have issues with the Libertarian party, but I am starting to agree more along the lines of with Chris and Nathan. And I don't see how the Republicans or Democrats are really better as a party over all in philosophy.

Actually, I think you could take Libertarian out of Paul's piece and replace it with words Democrat or Republican and it the little story could still work.
Chris Jones
gearjammer351
Dallas, TX
Post #: 79
Good point Sherry. Your last sentence is what I meant, but I like the way you said it.

And Pytheus (if that is your real name) I take offense to your characterization of Libertarians as geeks or something like that. However I made my saving throw against your vicious attack and therefore remain unscathedtongue

Just because I met my wife online (she is British-not Canadian- thank you), this does not mean that you know what you are talking about. She is in fact real.

By the way, this EVERQUEST place sounds interesting. Is it near enough to make a weekend trip of from the D/FW area?
A former member
Post #: 151
Chris,

I do not know if Libertarians are geeks or not. The doctors are still running tests on the ones we have in captivity. But I will be certain to post the findings...if any of them survive. cool

Of course she's British if you met her on-line. It's well known there are no Canadian women, it's merely a confidence game used by the Canadian PUBLIC Health System to lure unsuspecting Americans into the socialist state; cheap booze, free health care, free women, etc...we're hoping the Libertarians take them up on it.

No, Pytheus is not my real name (although it is the name of a real historical person). If you were to speak my real name you would burst into flame, walls would bleed, frogs would fall from the sky, locusts would eat all the crops and the Earth would loose gravity. So you can see it's best I keep such powerful knowledge under tight control lest the fouth horseman be released. devilish

Everquest is just down your street, just keep walking in a straight line until you find it. biggrin

Pytheus
Sherry
SherryTX
Plano, TX
Post #: 616
Oh it is true! My eyebrows are still singed from when I spoke the holy name a few months ago.

I hear you can have pets in Everquest.....so you can be lame but still have a little furry friend to keep you company.
Powered by mvnForum

Suggested Annual Donation

$10.00 (after 6 event visits)

This covers: Supporting operating expenses and advertising for new members!

Payment is accepted using:

  • PayPal
  • Cash or check - “Please give any cash or check to any Organizer at an event. We also accept BitCoin: 14sioRkdEBcvvQavE4zbDbSwbsvscPAvF9 Thanks!

Your organizer will refund you if:

  • Each event may have a specific refund policy based on the nature of the event. General donations are not refundable. We may rely on any payment, so if you have any questions please ask an Organizer BEFORE making a payment!

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy