North Texas Objectivist Society (NTOS) Message Board › How to properly ask if anyone's interested in certain political ideas or pro

How to properly ask if anyone's interested in certain political ideas or projects?

A former member
Post #: 46
I don't remember ever getting a response when I asked privately (and that was probably a few weeks ago) so here goes:

I think that a discussion of particular political projects (especially ones specifically seeking Objectivist participation and input) might be of interest to at least some of the NTOS people, and thus might be on topic enough to at least suggest here even if perhaps to move elsewhere as it progresses. What do y'all think?

By the way, I noticed a thread promoting Badnarik's campaign that was considered somewhat on topic because of it being at least potentially a political application of Objectivism. Aside from that specific thread having possibly degenerated somewhat, I hope that my query would likewise be acceptable.

Robert aka Gned the Gnome

P.S. In case anyone's curious, the political projects I have in mind are not conventional politics in the US jurisdiction such as the Ron Paul campaign or Libertarian Party etc., but are at least partly outside the context of the US and closer to the idea of starting with a clean slate, e.g. how would one create a new country based on mostly Objectivist principles etc. so they are more philosophical and thus perhaps more on-topic.
A former member
Post #: 48
It occurred to me that a possible appropriate way to engage interest might be to take some of the issues, questions, and problems in these projects and present them as hypothetical subjects for discussion, with links to relevant web sites for reference as background material to describe what ideas had been considered so far... How would Objectivism address these issues, solve these problems, implement a better system along these lines, etc.

In case that might be of interest, some such example questions might be:

What would be the best expression and implementation of Common Law based on the Non-Aggression Principle (NAP)? How would we go about creating an organization based on this, whose members would join and support NAP and agree to use the internal court system of this organization to handle unresolved disputes (perhaps after trying mediation or arbitration) before or in lieu of resorting to the legal system of the host countries? How would such a court system be structured and implemented?

Could adequate historical research be done to identify the worst points at which the US most severely violated America's founding principles and documents, e.g. passed unconstitutional laws, made stupid/absurd/abusive/unconstitutional court decisions, committed egregious atrocities, etc. each of which significantly changed our course for the worse? If so, could specific officeholders be identified as having participated in these violations? If so, could these officeholders then be considered to have so fundamentally violated their oaths of office (e.g. to obey the Constitution) as to constitute such a breach of contract as to have effectively forfeited their offices at that point? If so, would their continued participation after that point have been criminally impersonating authorized officeholders? Would a point have been eventually reached where a majority of both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court, and the Presidency, were effectively vacated and the government left without a quorum? If so, wouldn't every act of the government since then be illegal and thus null and void? Even if not, could it be argued that the US had drifted so far off course by the War of Northern Aggression that the US government which survived the war and passed the 13-17th amendments, Federal Reserve Act, etc. was no longer the legitimate government created by America's Founders? If so, should this be treated in effect as a coup? Also since the Articles of Confederation had provisions for amending them but these were not used, and the Constitution was simply adopted but the Articles apparently were never rescinded or terminated under proper procedures within the Articles, should the Constitution be considered to have not legally been adopted in the first place and therefore not really legally in effect? Even if not, should the Articles still be considered to be in effect? Would it be at least theoretically legally possible to somehow revive the original, legitimate government of America at one or more of these points where it went wrong? For example, could a group of volunteers analyze the requirements for citizenship under the Articles or the early Constitution and explicitly take the appropriate oath to naturalize themselves, vote themselves into office, and revive the legitimate government that way? Would they have to first reconstruct the States or at least the original 13 Colonies and then reconstruct America from them? How should such a reconstructed America deal with the current de facto regime?

Similar questions for the Republic of Texas, although this would be a simpler problem with less layers of government.

Might these issues be of interest for discussion? How would you address them?

It might also be interesting to discuss the Virtual Canton system and how to apply this to a hypothetical country.
A former member
Post #: 187
Merciful Zeus that's a lot to take in!

P
A former member
Post #: 49
Perhaps I should break these different topics into new separate threads?
Old Toad
OldToad
Group Organizer
Dallas, TX
Post #: 727
Gned,

Thank you for your private e-mail question to me of three weeks ago in which you asked me how to raise these issues of interest to you. I appreciate the respect for the purpose of NTOS you expressed in it and here on our message board. You also told me that you have started to read "Atlas Shrugged," as I requested when you first joined NTOS. I have been rather distracted and should have taken the time to respond to your e-mail sooner.

Your method of asking is good.

My main concern, however, is the same as I originally expressed to you several months ago: that you have not read any of Ayn Rand's novels or any of her philosophy, Objectivism. Ayn Rand's works and Objectivism are the common philosophical (including political) ground on which we want to share our social time and have discussions. While we host broad social events and we enjoy discussing everything under the sun, including politics, of course, we want to discuss from this philosophical background and perspective. For this reason, we ask that all members make an effort outside our events to learn more about Objectivism.

I know you are eager to get started talking about politics, and many Objectivists love talking politics, but you probably do not yet have a sufficient context of knowledge to understand the philosophical ground on which we are walking. I do not expect you to read 10 long books first, but I think Atlas Shrugged is one of the more important books to start with. A few of our members would be glad to discuss with you as you read, but for you to express this topic in terms that may be of more general interest here you will probably need read some more.

Meanwhile, we certainly welcome your interest in our group.

Regarding splitting this topic into more threads, I suggest that you wait until you see if you get any more interest and response.
A former member
Post #: 50
That's probably a good idea, thanks. I'll continue reading, and meanwhile, if anyone responds to this thread and starts discussing the ideas in detail, great! If not, I'll know there's not enough interest here.
A former member
Post #: 191
I wouldn't say there isn't any interest, but your post above is...robust. You might try a more narrow focus. laughing

P
A former member
Post #: 51
Oh, and now there's one more project I need to propose to see if anyone would be interested in participating in it or at least discussing it. There's a Liberty District starting up in a small town just SE of Dallas. Think of it as an opportunity to create an Objectivist-compatible enclave, a sort of Galt's Gulch, which by having pro-freedom city council, police, judge, etc. would tend to protect its people from having their rights violated by State and Federal gov't, rather than facilitating the violations. All we need is several more people to establish intent to move to the selected town and register to vote there by April 9, and then vote for the particular selected slate of candidates on May 10. No one actually has to move there yet, as new housing would not be ready in time, but again, voter reg. laws only require intent to move. Truckers and other highly mobile people could find it especially easy to do this. Sure, not everyone would be interested in this, but some people might be, and others might know other people who might be. Plans already being discussed include a private school and gold/silver money.
JoAnne Drew
user 5072024
Dallas, TX
Post #: 10
Gned, I think it's imperative that you understand what beliefs Objectivism entails prior to espousing causes. It's almost as though you're reaching at this faith based which is dangerous and ultimately in contradiction of the underlying principles of Objectivism. Your interest is certainly welcome, but perhaps you should start with a foundation before you build an empire. smile
A former member
Post #: 52
Very good point, and I am continue to read and enjoy Atlas Shrugged. Part of the reason I wanted to go ahead and post the last message was because I think it would be good if any Objectivists chose to get involved in the project, which would ultimately help steer it further toward the right direction in my opinion, and also because of its timeliness, in case anyone's thinking of moving into the area soon enough to consider taking advantage of the opportunity. Other than that, hopefully I would not come across as being in such a rush on this.

I would in general prefer not to be part of any "faith-based" project, especially as that term has been co-opted by the Chruch/State collusion, but on the other hand I think it may be a good idea to work carefully with select groups of people (even Christians) that are working on projects that aim in approximately the right direction, especially if some Objectivists might want to help provide balance and steer it more accurately. wink Joining forces like this is much more efficient than starting from scratch without local support in a potentially hostile environment.

Gned the Gnome
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