North Texas Objectivist Society (NTOS) Message Board › Read HBL for Free

Read HBL for Free

A former member
Post #: 12
HBL has decided to open up their online email list for the next month as an advertising tactic. I thought some of you may be interested in reading Harry Binswanger's list gratis. I've been reading Binzwanger's email list for some time now and really enjoy what he has to say whether I agree with all of his points or not. Go to: www.hblist.com/OCON/­ and enter OCON as both the username and password to login. Enjoy!
Donovan
Donovan.A
Dallas, TX
Post #: 138
Thanks Sarah,

I think that people should be aware of the HBL loyalty oath: http://www.hblist.com...­

The HBL Loyalty Oath

I have created this list for those who are deeply and sincerely interested in Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism and its application to cultural-political issues.

It is understood that Objectivism is limited to the philosophic principles expounded by Ayn Rand in the writings published during her lifetime plus those articles by other authors that she published in her own periodicals (e.g., The Objectivist) or included in her anthologies. Applications, implications, developments, and extensions of Objectivism--though they are to be encouraged and will be discussed on my list--are not, even if entirely valid, part of Objectivism. (Objectivism does not exhaust the field of rational philosophic identifications.)

I do not make full agreement with Objectivism a condition of joining my list. However, I do exclude anyone who is sanctioning or supporting the enemies of Ayn Rand and Objectivism. "Enemies" include: "libertarians," moral agnostics or "tolerationists," anarchists, and those whom Ayn Rand condemned morally or who have written books or articles attacking Ayn Rand. I do not wish to publicize the myriad of anti-Objectivist individuals and organizations by giving names, so if you have questions about any such, email me privately and I will be glad to discuss it with you.

If you bristle at the very idea of a "loyalty oath" and declaring certain ideological movements and individuals as "enemies," then my list is probably not for you. To join my list while concealing your sanction or support of these enemies, would be to commit a fraud. Again, if you have any questions on this policy, please let me know.

Sherry
SherryTX
Plano, TX
Post #: 1,032
I tend to ignore any and all such oaths. If after reading his list I like it, I may purchase it. If not I won't. I really don't care for any of these type such oaths. I won't NOT read someone's works if they put these out either though.
Old T.
OldToad
Group Organizer
Dallas, TX
Post #: 1,018
My understanding is that the HBL is an e-mail list and that subscribers may contribute discussion posts. Such an e-mail list is in the nature of a private association.

The right of association is the issue. The corollary to the right of association is the right to not associate.

I think the Dr. Binswanger has the right to state his expectations regarding who he wants to associate with and who he does not regarding the subscriptions to his e-mail list. Such statements regarding a private association should be respected.
Donovan
Donovan.A
Dallas, TX
Post #: 139
I tend to ignore any and all such oaths. If after reading his list I like it, I may purchase it. If not I won't. I really don't care for any of these type such oaths. I won't NOT read someone's works if they put these out either though.


I hope this does not offend you, but I somewhat consider that like reading someone's work who expects you to pay in exchange for reading it and you refuse to pay. I do not think it is necessary for me to state my thinking or opinion of the HBL oath because that is not the issue. The issue is: is it important to respect Binswanger's right to set any terms he wishes in exchange for reading or purchasing his product? My purpose in posting the oath was to help make clear to potential readers of the HBL what they would be agreeing to. Had you not looked over the HBL policies, you would have agreed to the oath by signing up or paying without knowing what you are agreeing to.


Respectfully,

Donovan
Donovan
Donovan.A
Dallas, TX
Post #: 140
If you disagree with the oath, you can always write Dr. Binswanger and complain: info@hblist.com
Sherry
SherryTX
Plano, TX
Post #: 1,035
I wouldn't continue to read the list if I didn't like what I got to read during the free trial period, and of course I would pay for it. My point was that I wouldn't NOT take advantage of the reading his list for free during the trial period because of his oath. And if I did (which isn't likely, there is some interesting stuff on there I have seen so far, but not interesting enough for me to pay $14 per month), I would pay for it, read it, and stay out of the discussions, because I would respect what he is about, and wouldn't "poke the bear" so to speak. And I certainly don't encourage other people NOT to go ahead and subscribe. I just personally don't think I would get enough out of it to part with $14 per month. (And I appreciate Sarah posting this because I have been curious as to what his list was like.)

I don't really care about the oath - Donovan, maybe I misunderstood you, but I took by your posting it that perhaps you were "warning" people about it, as in don't read it because he is intolerant of discord or something. That is why I posted what I did. But as I said, I wouldn't purposely go on and enter discussions with other members on his site/email list whatever, knowing full well what he doesn't want to see discussed, or positions he doesn't want to see defended. But I don't think to just READ his list one needs to be concerned with the oath.
Donovan
Donovan.A
Dallas, TX
Post #: 141
I wouldn't continue to read the list if I didn't like what I got to read during the free trial period, and of course I would pay for it. My point was that I wouldn't NOT take advantage of the reading his list for free during the trial period because of his oath. And if I did (which isn't likely, there is some interesting stuff on there I have seen so far, but not interesting enough for me to pay $14 per month), I would pay for it, read it, and stay out of the discussions, because I would respect what he is about, and wouldn't "poke the bear" so to speak. And I certainly don't encourage other people NOT to go ahead and subscribe. I just personally don't think I would get enough out of it to part with $14 per month. (And I appreciate Sarah posting this because I have been curious as to what his list was like.)

I don't really care about the oath - Donovan, maybe I misunderstood you, but I took by your posting it that perhaps you were "warning" people about it, as in don't read it because he is intolerant of discord or something. That is why I posted what I did. But as I said, I wouldn't purposely go on and enter discussions with other members on his site/email list whatever, knowing full well what he doesn't want to see discussed, or positions he doesn't want to see defended. But I don't think to just READ his list one needs to be concerned with the oath.


My point is there are two forms of payment that usually seem to be expected to participate with the HBL: material payment ($14.00/mo or whatever) and spiritual (the license agreement/policies). A person cannot ethically pick and choose which part of the policies you will comply with, even if the material payment requirement is dropped for a period of time, because I assume that the rest of the HBL policies stand even during the trial period. If you wanted to pay for the HBL for a month to check it out, the policies and the oath would stand as a requirement. Binswanger has the right to offer his list for free, you don't have the right to take it for free if he expects payment. The same is true of his other policies, he can drop them if he wants to, you don't have the right to ignore them.

I am not explicitly stating, do not read the HBL. My point is, know what you are being asked to pay, both materially and spiritually. If you want to read it, then comply with what he is asking. If you don't wish to comply (the price is too high) then don't read it. Of course you can always complain or ask him if the oath applies during the free trial.
Old T.
OldToad
Group Organizer
Dallas, TX
Post #: 1,019
I think Donovan's argument is well reasoned.
Donovan
Donovan.A
Dallas, TX
Post #: 142
Thanks Toad, I really appreciate that.
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