Title: member DestinyArchitect becomes the group's 2nd leader & Co-Organizer

This changed happened as detailed on Group Head Dan Stromberg's Greets "Nov 30, 2012 3:08 AM" & "Nov 30, 2012 5:25 PM"

*Nov 30, 2012 3:08 AM: Dan, might u make me an organizer of http://meetup.com/Ora... ? What would it take? I've been running Meetup groups since 2004 + publish dozens of free articles on "universal rules and guidelines for (Meetup.com & similar) in-person groups" http://1.JotHere.com/... , and as a leader, would take care of some group admin (starting w/ attendance) esp when u can't fully attend..; I could also get started some group additional leaders. Thanks!
*Nov 30, 2012 5:25 PM: To my last Greet to u today "Nov 30, 2012 3:08 AM", u Greet back "That would probably be a good idea - re ocpug. \ Nov 30, 2012 2:01 PM"
*Great! Ok, then on http://meetup.com/Ora.... just do "Admin Tools " -> "Manage Roles" then select as high as possible organizer job, ideally "Co-Organizer" --as I'm qualified for it & will do a great job!

Destiny features it on his complete intro

MF9DWL: Dear Group Head Dan Stromberg,
MF9DWU: *Thx for doing this! (making me co-organizer)
MF9F4G: *As stuff we'd be expected to know of each other, for you, I don't have any direct contacts & similar (your cell #, email address (just found got that), zip, company & title, etc). Kindly private message me this; and I will of course reply back with mine if you didn't already get my business card.
MF9DX4: *Since you started me, among other admin, I've:
MF9DXR: **published about my community group work mentioning this promotion plus that will much further inform you of my relevant background and all I offer --kindly skim.
MF9DX9: **been busy scheduling our next event, a real presentation! (and of Google App Engine!): it's exciting but also been proving tricky scheduling the speaker & especially room at the same time: more on the latter below.
MF9DXW: **Created these discussion boards..
MF9DY5: **The most serious problem I've encountered so far, and it can be fairly serious (as now around the holidays when our normal room reservation falls on Christmas): as is typical (having worked reserving Smart-Soft for months via OCAndroid), venue owner/management (member Dave&Michelle) are nearly impossible to get reply to on room reservation creations/changes. For instance, just yesterday OCAndroid #2 leader Bill had to call Michelle to get her to answer her phone & talk, as apparently when she sees my phone # she knows it's about room scheduling so routinely won't answer & reply, even though she knows Dave has made promises to user groups so this is normal stuff and she's in charge of scheduling it; one could then ask Dave (who is great in person) but Dave has actually hired Michelle for this kind of thing since in practice he finds he doesn't get it done himself (unless you're lucky to talk to him in person); moreover, Dave still keeps final approval and can also be very hard for even Michelle to reach, too. The only scheduling pro is there is a public calendar of user group reservations but only Michelle & Dave can edit it (and seemingly even Michelle must have Dave's approval), moreover, somebody must have the key to let folks in and only a few have the key and they aren't always very reachable else can come open the room.
MF9EJU: ***Any fix ideas? If I could get a room key, which would be quite appropriate due to my hosting at one time even weekly events there, that would solve this.
MF9EK1: ***Just curious, how did you get the reservation set up?

MFAXJV: I alerted to this thread via Meetup greet on Dan's profile of

DestinyArchitect[ of ]ORANGE COUNTY, CA PYTHON USER GROUP (OCPUG)
Dan, thx again for making (me Co-Organizer & 2nd leader of OC-Python http://meetup.com/Ora... ) :-) See that link for the new discussion of this plus further Qs for you (just answer-post there). Thanks!
Dec 18, 2012 8:22 PM

MFAX9X: Dan Meetup-emailed back

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Meetup <info@meetup.com> wrote:

Meetup Message from: Dan Stromberg, Organizer of Orange County, CA Python User Group (OCPUG)
Hi

Hi Destiny. Re: OCPUG.

My e-mail is st..rg@gmail.com.

FWIW, I favor just sticking to the last Tuesday of the month, except for December 2012 of course. I'd rather just cancel this month's meetup. That keeps things simpler for people who want to attend, and it keeps things simple for the people who have been nice enough to let us use their room.

BTW, I liked your nametag suggestion.

Thanks!

• MFAXEC: Thanks for prompt reply.
  
• MFAX9G: You'll notice I'm always posting & in my greet I wrote "just answer-post there". I'm posting, including reposting your email here, per the excellent group policy http://1.JotHere.com/... (post as much as possible, avoiding private communication & messaging as much as possible) long well used, and for excellent matching reasons, by all Meetup groups I oversee, and will ideally become policy here, too. Is this policy good? (as post reply here) Kindly why or why not?
  
• MFAXEX: Yes I mentioned I already had your email address; it was all the other info I asked for, see "MF9F4G: *As stuff we'd be expected.." above. Please send that.
  
• MFAXXC: You write "FWIW, I favor.."; very polite of you but you're the Head boss, what you say goes. However your solution seems fine & maximally simple, though it seems it will cause the Google App Engine to be delayed to Feb. per presenter Steve's comment in this thread. That is unless someone can open the room for us. John Sheehan presumably offered to open the room for us yesterday so on not our usual Tuesday. So unless we get similar offers I'll ahead as you suggest.
  
• MFAYPT: I still await your reply post on my last point of my prior above message "MF9EK1: ***Just curious, how did you get the reservation set up?"
  

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• To alert of this (as Meetup.com makes poor notification of new discussion posts), reply-emailed Dan

  From: DestinyArchitect <LC..st@loverules.info>
  Date: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:04 PM
  Subject: Re: Dan Stromberg sent you a message: Hi
  To: st..rg@gmail.com
  Cc: "Meetup.com/OCPython" <LVGCAB@etag.jothere.com>
  
  MFB0K6: Dan, thanks for your prompt reply!
  MFB0MR: *Per my post of "MF9F4G: *As stuff we'd be expected to know of each other, for you, I don't have any direct contacts & similar (your cell #, email address (just found got that), zip, company & title, etc). Kindly private message me this; and I will of course reply back with mine if you didn't already get my business card."
  MFB0MU: **I'm at cell 1.949.., zip 92630, Software & Social Architect for http://JotHere.com..., and here's my main web profile.
  MFB0MX: **What's your info? Just email that back.
  MFB0N3: *Having the other topics in private communications (as email) seemingly only costs as say explained by http://1.JotHere.com/... , so kindly just see my reply post (where I've replied in full) and reply-post there.
  MFB0RY: *Thanks much!
  
  MFB199: Sincerely, -Michael aka Destiny. Asides:
  MFB0S5: *What are these codes as “MFB0S5” on this paragraph? They're short IDs to date-stamp, uniquely-reference, and portably-track most any point or item.
  MFB0YE: *Email addresses ending in @etag.JotHere.com don't go to anyone but are just handy tags for filing as that link details.
  

MKJB73: Title: Like most every profound good change, adding a good agenda & structure and especially when before there was almost none will not be easy, even if done intentionally incrementally, including some used to the old will fight it including typically sometimes in destructive & childish ways

MKJAHN: (this post is just responding to the thread topic. mot to any of the above posts.)

MKJAJ8: I am increasingly seeing that, as far as the meeting style & size:

• MKJAV5: *before I started managing and adding some structure to meetings, as agenda MOTAGN developed & well-proven for OCAndroid, having no structure other than a regular meeting time resulted in:
  MKJATT: **as would be expected in:
  MKJAOH: ***low & typically non-regular attendance
  MKJAUL: ***typically no presentations
  MKJAX8: ***just free-form open discussion (typically in a circle) of whomever showed up & talk about something to the group, including with no discussion moderator besides the overall attendees themselves
  MKJAZV: ***no record of what happened besides whatever was casually remembered by attendees
  MKJB3I: ***the feeling by seemingly most people who came and/or considered coming that not much was really happening
  MKJBV3: ***seemingly the vast majority of people looking at the event listings had a genuine interest in the subject, but would either not coming (seeing very little on the event listing and/or posts on the group site) or else would just come 1x or maybe 2x, but not stay, all from not feeling appreciated via the activity
  MKJASJ: **but also things which were less obvious to me
  MKJAQM: ***The few that attended regularly & semi-regularly were:
  MKJBFD: *****pretty much all technically very proficient in at least Python else coding
  MKJB57: ******as beginners and many many intermediates would not get what was going on, needing basic introduction that they weren't going to get here, so leave
  MKJBGX: *****comfortable with speaking up among strangers & even mild group confrontation
  MKJBMY: ******as the many folks needing to-be-introduced or social protection would be passed over
  MKJBRF: *****apparently regularly not caring MKJBV3 happening and a sense of elitism.
  MKJBPS: *****used to this being the very small crowd of who's there (most very familiar except for the newcomers who who might not seem worth bothering with as they typically not come again), so used to not troubling with or being concerned with anyone else
  
• MKJC3L: *after my starting to place these changes, it would then not be surprising that:
  MKJC4U: *attendance is dramatically increasing
  MKJDVE: **attendance has tripled since I took the lead
  MKJC5A: *group participation, both during meetings and even between them, is dramatically increasing
  MKJDU2: **active members has doubled since I took the lead.
  MKJDYO: **# of posts on the group site has gone from ~3/month to about 40/month since I took the lead
  MKJCJ8: *other good things, but:
  MKJC6G: *some of the old-timers are:
  MKJCCT: **upset with the changes
  MKJCQJ: ***sometimes with legitimate reasons
  MKJCS5: ****as one John mentioned to me: concern that the open-discussion, which he expressed was his favorite part, would be entirely lost, which made me think how to extend the agenda to more explicitly insure that that isn't lost on anyone who could benefit but instead fully appreciated as much as possible.
  MKJCXD: ***but likely from illegitimate concerns, too:
  MKJCB0: ****perhaps in part because others, indeed ideally many others, are now getting attention, when they have been used to all the attention to themselves
  MKJCG7: *****perhaps formerly getting a lot of attention because they had super/top technical skills but now other skills as management & people skills & really helping others are becoming important, ares which they are may be weak in and (perhaps because of this) likely undervalue
  MKJCDK: ****though probably smart enough to know the changes are overall good and instead their motives against them are many times bad
  MKJCN7: *****but not wanting or able to admit and/or face it so acting out
  MKJD3V: ****and probably not having the best people skills to express their discontent (their forte being technical)
  MKJD6K: ***so acting in ways destructively against the change.
  
• MKJD85: with every profound change, maybe especially the best ones, growing pains should be expected.
  

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MKJKII: Alluding to this, right after posting this, I sent this SMS

Me to Dan Stromberg (94_) ___-__02 - mobile
3/31/13 11:46 AM 91 minutes ago
Me: Happy Easter/Passover! Did u know Meetup shows our active mbrs&attendance doubled&tripled since I took over effectively running OCPython? Tho,as2be expected w/such growth,not w/o a few growing pains. So cd u give me a quick call soon? -2talk of timely group admin. Yes I aim2normally talk-via-post,but key we in gd sync. 11:46 AM

MKJKIR: -no reply yet