Re: [Progressive-Singles-SF-Bay-Area] What do you think about paid sponsorship for our group???

From: Bruce W.
Sent on: Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:40 PM
Hi Tim,

Just so I am clear about your request - "can we agree on making clear, non-personal statements?"  I wrote below my response to this.  I'm not sure that I understood specifically what you meant by "non-personal statements" so let me know if I have misinterpreted your words.

I'm sure just about any corporate sponsor would love for us to keep our discussions on a purely abstract level ("non-personal"), because we would then pose no threat to their position of power and the influence they wield over congress.  Politics is personal.  It involves competing world views.  Those world views can make a difference between life and death for people not just in this country, but for people around the world.

I take personal what our government does to support corporate low wage-child labor-slave labor-ecological disaster breeding-dictator propping-militia training-land stealing-population displacing-genocide causing activities around the globe.

Anybody that is going to make statements that would have us ignore that history and continuing activity I will challenge, because it must be confronted if this country is ever going to develop any kind of moral backbone.  That confrontation is called resistance.  If that resistance is not part of your world view, then you can hardly call yourself a progressive.  An accommodator would be more accurate.

That's my world view.  You are welcome to your own.  But if anything substantial is going to come out of this meetup, then we need to be up front about what our world view is, be willing to be challenged, and take the responsibility to challenge those that you fundamentally disagree with.  Nobody in this current conversation has engaged in name calling or personal attacks, and I don't see it "devolving" into that.  But just as I am willing to challenge Peter about his statements, I would hope that others challenge me on what they fundamentally disagree with.  I'm not interested in just making nice with everybody.  I'm interested in meaningful exchanges.  We have to have some trust in each other that even if a discussion does devolve into irrational personal attacks, that we will be able to take a step back, take a deep breath and strive for understanding each other.

We each have within us a need for agentic expression, putting forth what we feel strongly about, on the one hand, and on the other hand, communion with others, coming to greater understanding of the Other,  .  Community is about collaboratively mediating those two needs as a group.

Bruce


From: Tim <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Thu, July 22,[masked]:35:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Progressive-Singles-SF-Bay-Area] What do you think about paid sponsorship for our group???

Re: [Progressive-Singles-SF-Bay-Area] What do you think about paid sponsorship for our group??? You���re welcome? Just so this doesn���t devolve into an internet type of mudslinging can we agree on making clear, non-personal statements? Thanks,
Tim


On 7/22/10 2:11 PM, "Mr A. Phipps" <[address removed]> wrote:

Thanks for not blindly taking a bribe!



On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Tim <[address removed]> wrote:
Hi All,

So I���ve heard GE wants to sponsor of course but what does that mean, exactly? Are they willing to invest in community projects like the ones Peter mentioned? Or would they willing to sponsor the group for a vacation in Tahiti, because I can definitely be bought : ) But really, what is it they are offering and in exchange for what? Their logo on the website, what are their terms. GE has done some good things in spite of their huge investment in weapons and nuclear etc. etc. If they would be willing to invest big bucks for community projects then I can see it being worth it but I doubt they would  agree to that just to be associated with a Meetup group. But I���m just guessing. It would be good to know if they had mentioned any specifics.
Tim



On 7/22/10 1:21 PM, "Bruce Wilson" <[address removed] <http://[address removed]> > wrote:

Hi Peter,

I must say, I'm quite shocked by what you have written in defense of taking money from GE.  It makes me wonder what your motivations are for being an apologist for one of the biggest corporate criminals in American history.  It doesn't take much research to find dirt on GE.  I found the following link in about 30 seconds.  Please check it out.  There is probably much more under the Google search I did - "crimes of General Electric."

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Earth-s-Enemies-GE-Monsa-by-Rady-Ananda-090516-430.html

Another baffling statement you've made upon joining this group:
"We have the opportunity to  facilitate the transformation of our society into life affirming sustainability, as  Madison Avenue did in the 1950's. If we work together on incremental steps, we can also have fun along the way."

Madison Avenue is the propagandist for the corporate criminals that run this country.  They have contributed nothing to sustainable living.in <http://living.in>  their promotion of the military industrial complex which President Eisenhower warned against.  They have only worked their asses off for their own monetary gain and against any kind of sane economic life affirming sustainability.

I do have to wonder if you are making these kind of statements to  instigate infighting and distract us from any kind of sensible pragmatic progressive discussions and activities, just as a plant from homeland security would be doing.

Personally, I have no more time and energy to give to this topic of GE sponsorship.  I have already in this email given far more than it is worth for any of us to spend on it.

Bruce





From:
Peter Clark <[address removed] <http://[address removed]> >
To: [address removed] <http://[address removed]>
Sent: Thu, July 22,[masked]:30:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Progressive-Singles-SF-Bay-Area] What do you think about paid  sponsorship for our group???

I would like to add some counterpoint to the sponsorship debate:

I have run across GE in some interesting places-

For example, I bought double-wide trailers from GE Capital to
construct a family center and Head Start facility in South Sacramento
in 1993. The program totally transformed a low-income neighborhood
from what was known, as "Danger Island", with 435 police calls every
year in 1990, to a model community with shared gardens, Head Start,
after-school programs for kids, computer literacy classes and other
job training, English as a Second Language, and zero police calls for
the entire year by 1996. I did that using a grant from the Federal
Government, even though there was a lot about American politics that I
didn���t like. But that didn���t stop me from using the money to improve
the lives of thousands of people. And I would gladly have accepted the
facility for fee in exchange for calling it the GE Family Center.

We have the opportunity to do similar things in the Bay Area,
particularly Oakland and Richmond. But it will not be by adapting  a
holier-than-thou attitude.

I see the possibility of an entirely new set of alliances emerging in
American Politics as a result of the unique economic, social,
environmental, and political situation that we are presently in, if we
can be open to the possibilities.

Che Guevera was quoted as saying ���I envy you who are in America,
because you are in the belly of the beast.��� Thus, Che was wise enough
to understand that it was not America that was the problem, it was
American leadership, and that can change. For example- Obama, a man of
peace and principle, is the Commander and Chief of the US Armed
Forces. This underscores the fact that the American military has not
been the problem. The problem has been the civilian leadership.

If we are truly progressive, would we not be open for a change in
attitude, and approach?

Or are we as rigid in our thinking as we project onto the reactionaries?

We could certainly be cynical- Some Obama Administration policies are
looking more and more like they were fabricated by Cheney, for
example. But does some of that have to do with a need to survive?
Kennedy had some revolutionary ideas where they mattered most, and
history has recorded where that took him. Lincoln had revolutionary
ideas as well- including for a monetary system that was not controlled
by the Rothschilds et al. It didn���t take much for the powers that be
to ed that discussion.

I did organizing against G.E. in the early '70s- in particular
regarding their connections to electronic battlefield technology,
however Westinghouse was the worst offender from what I could see, and
I don���t think that has changed. These two companies have been rivals
for 100 years (GE came out of Edison���s technology, and Westinghouse
from Tesla). G.E. builds locomotives and windmills, and control
systems for transit, and G.E. has resources that would be incredibly
useful in the transformation of our country, and our world, to a
sustainable model. Westinghouse still seems stuck in the past. If I
were to choose sides, I would pick GE.

A corporation is a structure for people to work together. How about if
we ignore the structure for a moment, and look at the possibility of
opening a dialog with people? How about if we use our influence as
people to re-direct the wrong-headedness and move onto a positive
track.

I would like to suggest a new psychology- How about:
���The revolution is over and we won.���

Now comes the incredibly difficult task of rebuilding our society as
we would want it. We, literally, now have the opportunity to create a
new world, as long as we don���t much with the Rothschild gang. But it
is a world that will not be changed instantly, or willingly, as Obama
has discovered.

The change must start with ourselves.

Does this mean that the group should accept sponsorship from GE?

I don���t know, but I would like the idea to not be rejected yet. I am
new to the group, but it is my impression that the group was formed to
be for socialization, not for political activism,  And I appreciate
the fact that we are engaging in this dialog over the internet, and
not at a gathering. The potluck was wonderful, and I would like that
positive energy to be maintained.

Any thoughts?

Peter




> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Sumi" <[address removed] <http://[address removed]> >
> To: [address removed] <http://[address removed]>
> Date: Sat, 3 Jul[masked]:19:31 -0400
> Subject: RE: [Progressive-Singles-SF-Bay-Area] What do you
> think about paid sponsorship for our group???Hi Everyone,
>
> I've heard a few vehement "no's" from some members (as I thought might
> happen), so I just rejected the offer as I had originally been intending to
> do - thanks for the feedback!  I might ask a local progressive attorney if
> she would be interested in sponsoring. She's been an activist and
> progressive for many years. I don't know if she would, but I would endorse
> her /recommend her to anyone who needed ethical legal services, including
> estate planning. Any thoughts on that?
>
> Sumi
>
>  ________________________________
>  From: [address removed] <http://[address removed]>
> To: [address removed] <http://[address removed]>
> Subject: [Progressive-Singles-SF-Bay-Area] What do you
> think about paid sponsorship for our group???
> Date: Sat, 3 Jul[masked]:41:16 -0400
>
> Hi Everyone,
> We could get sponsorship - $50/month to use as we wish for the MeetUp. The
> catch is that it's from GE - some program that is apparently is trying to
> cast GE as green, it's called "GE: ecomagination." ! Before we dismiss this
> outright, though, maybe there is a way we can make it work for us. The only
> thing that's really required is that they get to post something on the page.
> We could always post something else that is a disclaimer. Any thoughts? I
> cut and pasted the info below. I ignored this offer at first, so it may be
> about to expire, so let me know soon if you have thoughts on it.
> Sumi
>
> Your GE: ecomagination sponsorship offerCampaign Details
>
>
> This sponsorship is meant to support your Meetup to help make it better!
> Here are some of the benefits of participating:
>
> 4 $50 monthly sponsorship payments to support your Meetup however you wish.
> Payments will be made at the end of each sponsored month.
> Custom name tags mailed to you. Request yours here: http://bit.ly/dp3F0V
> Informative content on environmental issues to use at your Meetups
> Other possible benefits may be: invites to special events, promotion of
> sponsored groups, and more
> Sponsorship will run until October 29th, 2010
>
> To participate, here's what you need to do:
>
>
> ACCEPT the offer below
> Allow Meetup HQ to display the GE:ecomagination logo on your Group Pages and
> add the GE:ecomagination tag as well
> As Organizer, receive a monthly emails about the sponsorship to share with
> your members
> Keep your Meetup active! Have at least 1 Meetup each month.
> Mention that your Meetup Group is supported by GE: ecomagination at your
> Meetups.
>
> GE: ecomagination or you can end the sponsorship at any time
>
> How will you receive payment?
>
> Your monthly sponsorship payment of $50.00 will be paid at the end of each
> full month of sponsorship. All payments are made through Amazon Payments.
> You'll need to set up Amazon Payments to receive these payments. We'll even
> help you set one up.
>
> Set up your Amazon Account
>
> Learn more about Meetup & Amazon Payments
>
> Please see the general Sponsorship FAQs for more information!
>
>
>
>
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